Bravado

[evo]

Today I ran into a big company crew cleaning up storm stuff. I know a job where there's a silver maple, post storm breakage about 70' tall and it has an about 50' leader at 45 degrees with a 20' chunk of from-somewhere-else balanced/laying out at the tip of the branch where it sags to horizontal.

I figured if you could get out there climbing, your rope would end up at 20 degrees from horizontal. On a featureless leader, no lanyarding your way up. Then there's the issue of a rigging tip, either what's left of the top like a fork of stubs, where the climbing tip is, or out another splaying gangly leader. Or -ve rig at the cut, but I wouldn't feel good about shocking the gangly branch I'm on. The other rig tips would shoot the pieces real close past you. And don't rig from your climbing tip leader rule.

So liking to keep my person intact I reasoned out that cut n chuck little bits from a lift was the best option. So I ask the crew if they run lifts, 50 or 60'. "No we'd just climb it" "The main tip is compromised and the rope angle would be - show them- " Looking like a cowboy at the OK Corral the fellow says "I'd spur it" . I didn't pursue talking about spurless until on the branch to be removed because I was getting that "There's no intelligent life down here Scotty" vibe.


Am I not savvy enough, coming up with my assessment or is this a case of macho climber bravado? I know, pics? but I don't have any. My little voice and all my rational reasoned planning all came up negative except for bits from the lift. I pulled a similar dying branch from the same tree using self rig at the cut and it was a little hairy,

Is there personality types etc in climbers like alpha males etc, young dumb foolish and indestructible, cautious, over cautious, fuck it cuts and on it goes...

Thoughts?

There always more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes it’s tossing your lanyard loosely around the horizontal limb, if you did fall you don’t go for a huge swing or splat.
Sometimes it pre setting a second rope from the ground on the end of the big horizontal.
Sometimes it’s tossing your tail out over the tips and having a groundie ‘belay’ your tail.
Sometimes it’s a throwing hook/grapple
Shallow rope angles are fine as long as you find a way to mitigate taking a whipper

 

[Jehinten]

I'd just throw a ball over it and do the tying from the ground with a running bowline.

Even with a climber in the tree, a groundie that's good with a throw weight can save a lot time and energy for the climber with mid ties and tip ties.

As the climber you can pre set that one limb before climbing and then use a second rigging line to clear the rest of the limbs.

 

[moss]

Is there personality types etc in climbers like alpha males etc, young dumb foolish and indestructible, cautious, over cautious, fuck it cuts and on it goes...

Thoughts?

Yup. There’s a reason there’s a high injury rate for climbing tree workers (compared to other manual labor occupations) and what you’re describing is part of why.

Oh, and a pet peeve of mine, there’s no such thing as an “Alpha Male” for humans. At least in the strict meaning of the term as applied to social order in wolf packs etc. The term is loosely applied to people who are loud, obnoxious, and aggressive when it doesn’t serve any purpose or is counterproductive. The better term would be “Dumbass Ass Male”.
-AJ

 

[Vicente]

Even with a climber in the tree, a groundie that's good with a throw weight can save a lot time and energy for the climber with mid ties and tip ties.

As the climber you can pre set that one limb before climbing and then use a second rigging line to clear the rest of the limbs.

Absolutely in this case by I'd just do this what I actually meant is one of the groundies would do it likely they'd be ready before I was.

 

[Vicente]

Yes, my nephew raves about the GRCS that his firm uses.
Not sure it would save much time in this case tbh.

You have to get out there anyway, and 3/4 lowers took 10/15 minutes max.

Its next on the list though .

They're awesome not just in time the amount of ease it brings to the job and the pucker reduction alone are worth it.

 

[southsoundtree]

Mick, what about lift and lower with your loader?

 

[Mick Dempsey]

Mick, what about lift and lower with your loader?

Far too high and too big Sean.

I am also very wary of shock loading weight onto a €40k machine, the nightmare scenario of a topple looms large!

 

[Mick Dempsey]

Hang on, you mean using a rope!

In fairness, I’ve just got up and am boiling an egg reading this.

 

[southsoundtree]

I've got a GRCS.

I've used it few times.

A long time ago i simply redirected appropriately and used my truck with Portawrap on the front tow rings as the power to lift limbs over a house, and POW to lower after cutting free in a vertical position.

I've done likewise with my loader.

A couple days ago, i lifted a failing willow from over the power lines by hanging it in anther tree and cut it off the stump.
Lowering and cutting off the bottom, rinse and repeat, until tip heavy.


Much faster than the GRCS, buried deep in the bed of the truck.

 

[Bart_]

Thanks for the common wisdom guys. However, the highest tip in the tree after breakage is just higher than the work spot, hence no support from above. No 2nd lanyard spot. No rig point above, just wildly to the side where the piece/rig rope would come right by you. As my memory bubbled up, on the last go round the self rig point was actually a redirect from another leader that was not my tip. When the tree still had it's tops.

In your pics there's some upslope to the leader, local verticals and some verticality of some sort. Appreciate and have done such before. Take a 45 degree stick, curve it down to horizontal and that's where I'd have to go - with no local vertical branches at all. Think sloth. Can't see any way to work/rig in that position. Especially with the second swatter balanced/tangled right there.

I can't in conscience sic this cowboy climber on my customer. Bad juju. I'd get associated with the inevitably bad outcome.

 

[Jehinten]

Thanks for the common wisdom guys. However, the highest tip in the tree after breakage is just higher than the work spot, hence no support from above. No 2nd lanyard spot. No rig point above, just wildly to the side where the piece/rig rope would come right by you. As my memory bubbled up, on the last go round the self rig point was actually a redirect from another leader that was not my tip. When the tree still had it's tops.

In your pics there's some upslope to the leader, local verticals and some verticality of some sort. Appreciate and have done such before. Take a 45 degree stick, curve it down to horizontal and that's where I'd have to go - with no local vertical branches at all. Think sloth. Can't see any way to work/rig in that position. Especially with the second swatter balanced/tangled right there.

I can't in conscience sic this cowboy climber on my customer. Bad juju. I'd get associated with the inevitably bad outcome.

By all means stick with your plan of using a lift, that will reduce much of the problem with that tree.

I'm curious with the side discussion of throwlines earlier, can you remote set the end of the problem limb? Maybe tie in 1/4 in from the tips then make the cut halfway out? Climbing halfway out on that limb should be much easier than going all the way out and will result in a better rope angle.

If you were to hire that climber for this job, as a subcontractor, you could watch how he handles it and have veto power if you see an incident getting ready to happen.


Just a couple of options, if you hadn't thought of them, that might save you some money on your lift rental.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Thanks for the common wisdom guys. However, the highest tip in the tree after breakage is just higher than the work spot, hence no support from above. No 2nd lanyard spot. No rig point above, just wildly to the side where the piece/rig rope would come right by you. As my memory bubbled up, on the last go round the self rig point was actually a redirect from another leader that was not my tip. When the tree still had it's tops.

In your pics there's some upslope to the leader, local verticals and some verticality of some sort. Appreciate and have done such before. Take a 45 degree stick, curve it down to horizontal and that's where I'd have to go - with no local vertical branches at all. Think sloth. Can't see any way to work/rig in that position. Especially with the second swatter balanced/tangled right there.

I can't in conscience sic this cowboy climber on my customer. Bad juju. I'd get associated with the inevitably bad outcome.

Think sloth. Lol

This reminds me of a sycamore that began as a crane job, but lightning forced us to stop. What remained was a huge truck and a long horizontal limb. Like an upside down L. Went back another day to do manually. I went out there and slothed the crap out of that limb, I think I had to take it in 3 or 4 pieces. It was not easy!!

Like I said before I think your bucket truck idea is fantastic. If someone wants to do it the hard way, that’s their calories they can do what they want with. Plenty of sane climbs to fill the calendar with.

 

[Bart_]

The swing on the limb end would have to be two ends simultaneously, the 20 footer balanced on top plus the supporting limb's end - way too much force imo, and just the lower end would threaten to barber chair (sorry) if it was cut anywhere remotely climber-safe and with that length it would also threaten the shed. etc ...

When you slothed, did you local-rig point at the cut or were you blessed with a semi-overhead rig tip?
edit - with the benefit of reading compren-sion, I interpret you had nothing higher than the limb and rig tipped at the cut

 

[southsoundtree]

This thread needs pictures. If only people kept cameras on themselves.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

The swing on the limb end would have to be two ends simultaneously, the 20 footer balanced on top plus the supporting limb's end - way too much force imo, and just the lower end would threaten to barber chair (sorry) if it was cut anywhere remotely climber-safe and with that length it would also threaten the shed. etc ...

When you slothed, did you local-rig point at the cut or were you blessed with a semi-overhead rig tip?
edit - with the benefit of reading compren-sion, I interpret you had nothing higher than the limb and rig tipped at the cut

Fishing pole from trunk to rigging point. I think a more accurate verb would be to say I ‘scooted’ to the work position.