Brand new splicer, dbl braid class I question

[JontreeHI]

So I scored the treestuff beginner splice kit for Xmas, and I've been trying my hand at an eye on a hank of vortex I have lying around.
Was going fine, but I got to step 7, burying the core, and have been having a heck of a time getting the fid and core through from point x to point z, where both core and cover are present. Seems far too tight, doesn't want to go. I know I haven't picked up core strands because it still can move.
Looking online at videos, this doesn't appear to be a particularly difficult step for anyone else.
Any pointers? Am I doing something wrong?
I appreciate any tips, this is my first go. I find it really interesting and look forward to being able to create my own stuff. Any pointers about where to start or what with would be welcomed also!
Thanks in advance!
Jon

 

[Leroy]

Try using a wire coat hanger to pull it through if you do not have a toss wand.

 

[Marden]

Jon,
After doing 5 eye splices, I agree that this will be tight. I just posted the following tips and photos on TH which might help you. Look at steps 3 and 4(and the photo I posted). I found this helps to keep the cover bunched up to help squeeze the fid through on the step you are working on. Also, I would love to hear tips other people use for splicing:

Tip #1 Using 7" double-point knitting needles for isolation:
I find that these work quite well to isolate portions of the rope for the following things while making splices.

1- Pick up some 1" painters tape. This works great for taping and is very easy to remove.
2- You can use 2 needles to pry the cover apart to help expose the core for extraction. First insert one needle between the cover and the core in one direction and the other needle in the other direction. Then rotate the needles until the core becomes exposed.
3- After you extract the core and milk the cover all the way back, place a pin at the extraction point so the core will stay exposed and not slide back into the cover.
4- When you thread the cover from through the core and back out again, place a pin at the extraction point so the cover will stay exposed while you make the taper
5- After you insert the cover into the core and then taper the cover, wrap the tail of the cover with some tape, then place a pin through the cover just above the tape and through the core to prevent the cover from accidentally getting buried while you work on the next step of threading the core back into the cover at the crossover point.

Hope you are enjoying the splicing. Post some any ideas to make it easier...

Michael

 

[JontreeHI]

Thanks guys for all the quick responses. Off to the craft store first thing in the am
I do have the ABR wire did, but frankly I don't know how to use it, nor can I find anything online regarding its use. Any tips?
Sorry if any of my questions seems rudimentary.

 

[evo]

Stick the wire fid though the marks opposite the directions... Say the instructions call for the burry to go into mark "A" and out mark "B", insert the wire fid into "B" and out mark "A"... Then take a few strands from the core (~4), put in the the loop of wire, tape if you wish and gently but firmly pull the fid out, the core strands will come with it. Some times getting the rope wet with water will lubricate if needed.

 

[bonner1040]

At 1:20 you see me use a ghetto wired made out of some really heavy wire. The musicians wire used in the ABR fide is far superior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5GrxaQlZeY

 

[DBT]

when pulling the core back over/through, taper it so it pulls through easier. youll cut the very end off at the end anyway so it doesnt matter.

 

[JontreeHI]

Thanks guys.
The visual is really helpful also nick, I did some more youtube digging and found a couple NiceGuyDave vids as well. Funny that it takes you guys like 8 minutes to get to the point that took me almost an hour to get to. But I will persevere.
Michael-you've done 5-have you climbed on any yet?
Drew-by taper you just mean to cut it at an angle correct? Not the business of removing every 5th strand pair etc?
Thanks again

 

[Tony]

To enjoy splicing, I find it far more helpful to eschew measuring time in standard minutes and hours and instead advocate using favorite beverage consumed measurements

i.e a double braid splice takes me about 1.5 cold ones!

This way you can relax, just like your line should. Which is the tip I give along side the above mentioned! Relax!

Tony

 

[Marden]

Tony,
Excellent advise to measure completion time in terms of cold ones you drink while splicing !!!

Jon,
yes, I climbed on them. Even though you 'know' they are all good splices, you still get that feeling in the back of your head...

Also, I agree with Evo. It definitely helps if you open up point 'Z' by feeding the fid through in 'opposite' direction. The double-point knitting needles help at this step - the needles are cheap and come in a wide range of sizes.

Good luck with your splice. Be sure you take the time to "completely smooth out the crossover point again just before you complete the final bury" !!!

Send us a photo when you are done !

Michael

 

[JontreeHI]

Tony time is relative, huh?
In that case it is my hope to finish my first splice, very quietly, in one and a half infant son naps.
Ill post a pic when finished. Don't expect it will be a looker.
Thanks again all.

 

[evo]

I also use knitting needles but for opening up the rope to extract the core I use a pair of surgical "snap ring" pliers. I had them laying around for body jewelery, my old roommate was a body piercer. They are super tough and I frequently will only use one side to pry out the core, I've broken knitting needles by trying that..

 

[JontreeHI]

Those look handy evo.
So I'm having trouble securing the core to the wire fid. once I start pulling it just comes right off.
No tape necessary, just put a short amount through and it should stay?

 

[evo]

I pull about 1.5-2" through the wire fid, it makes a good handle to pull the slack out to make the core taper (lots of massaging helps here too).. Many say that they don't use tape, but I do. Just a little tape. One hang up that I've had is when pulling the core out of the burry not having enough to grab on to, I find tape helps for this more than starting the core into the burry. Hope this makes sense.

 

[JontreeHI]

Got ya evo, I'm making that work now. Thanks.
I finished a splice on the vortex. Not succesful, I will post a pic and maybe you guys can diagnose my problem.
I started another on some velocity, and hit the same problem. Once I'm supposed to pull the core through, even with the wire fid. it just doesn't go, no matter how hard I yank. A wise man once told me that if you're forcing something, you probably aren't doing it right.
Thanks guys for playing a long. Between being unsuccessful at splicing and the stupid "what does the fox say" song (not to mention inactivity due to time off) I can't sleep and I'm driving my poor wife nuts. Please help my family.

 

[JontreeHI]

Here's my vortex. Too much bunch in the core for it to milk no matter how hard I pull. Thoughts?

 

[JontreeHI]

My poor family.
Non-plused

 

[Marden]

Jon,
Take another look at the first part of step 8 in the Samson instructions. Before you start your final buries, go back to the crossover point at Mark T one last time. start on the cover side and milk it smooth. then do the same from the core side. you may need to do some massaging right at the crossover until it is smooth without any lump at the crossover point.

For the second part of step 8, I found I needed to spend a LOT of time massaging the fid from Mark X to Z. It was very tight and needs to be slowly stretched out to fit the core through
Next milk the cover into the core at Mark 3
Next milk the core into the cover at Mark Z.
Now you are ready do the final bury.

Using those needles to pin everything in place helped me with isolation while I worked on the other sections.

I have been very fortunate that all of my splices came out good. Don't worry. You will get through this too and put a smile on your wife's face. Good luck.

BTW, what does the Fox say ???

 

[MooseHead]

Put something you can hold in the eye before the final milking process. I use one of the tube fids. Keep tension on the eye while milking and you will avoid a lot of the bunching you have there.

 

[JontreeHI]

Success!
Still need to lock stitch.
Thanks guys for all your advice and guidance. There were a couple things that were a little foggy just from reading the Samson instructions, but have become much clearer now.
How's it look?