big john limbwalking adjusts FH w/ feet

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Our loss for sure Daniel, I would have loved to have worked with him.

Maybe I missed it, but do you know what caused him to burn out on treework specifically?

Please no wise cracks you guys. If someone like Big Jon can get burned out, it can happen to any of us.
 
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That's hilarious Jesse.
You don't know who you are talking about. That was one of the world's most productive arborists. EVER!

Just once again proving to me what fools are posting here at TB..

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Wow he must be right up there with the world's best black climber, eh? Cool how all the guys you've worked with (or maybe just watched) are the world's greatest. Is it like, something in the water up there? ...or maybe just more of your inane hyperbole.
 
You're a little slow Chip so I'll clue you in...

Pat Epps and I both learned from Big John. We both worked the ground for him extensively, and climbed with him (Pat much more than me).. Working with a man like that leaves an indelible mark.
 
I guess the fact that i don't care about how you got into tree work makes me slow... But I don't see how.

I have no doubt Grier is a good climber, there are a great many good climbers on the East Coast alone, never mind the whole world. Just because you love them doesn't male them the greatest or most productive.

In fact, I don't see how you can label anybody 'greatest' or even 'one of the greatest'. Nor do I see how it's relevant.

Why can't John Grier just be a damn good tree guy (and apparently very knowledgeable and generous) and leave at that. Isn't that enough?

You've been exposed to a tiny fraction of the climbing community. You're in no position to hand out world class accolades.

Dude, if you mellowed... Just a little, everybody would mellow too. Your baseless arrogance makes you a lightning rod instead of a peer.
 
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He taught a lot of people a lot of stuff in a very humble way, gave biners and gear to climbers making the switch to new school, spliced home made friction savers and gave them away, and would answer any question that anyone asked. Never acted like he was any better than anyone else, and really dug all the new school innovations early on in that change in the industry. I learned not to question ANYTHING he did.. If he did it, there was a good reason for it. If I didn't understand that, then there was something for me to learn.


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You speak very highly of someone you have so little in common with.
Much respect to the the guy though, and only because Chris' word is actually worth something.
 
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Well no wonder he burned out. That limb walk was a model for inefficiency. I doubt anyone could keep that up for long. Im glad he quit his day job.

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my appollogies as usual.
That was out of line.
 
Since Daniel appears to be Gods gift to tree work, and he lets evryone know how good and better, and smart he is, someone should start a thread that lets everyone BUT Daniel brag about whatever they are really good at BESIDES tree work. Mostly because by the sounds of it Dan THE tree man has no life outside of tree work. Daniel, maybe you should put the right people up on a pedstal, say Soldiers, combat soldiers specifically, more specifically, the ones who died/ die eveyday. You get so wrapped up in the tree that you forget what really really matters. Put your ego aside for a change. There appears to be a SHITLOAD ( sorry ) of good tree guys here who are willing to share their knowledge, WITHOUT having the arrogance you do. Even if you are as good as you say/ think you are, don't be a prick about it. You seem to be looking for praise, not getting it, and it pisses you off, so you keep pushing it until someday, someone gives you accolades ( and mean it ) I could be way off, but for the last week, every damn post I try to read somehow spins to You being a dick in it, maybe I keep reading the wrong posts, but hey, what can I do. I do admit you have a lot of knowledge and skill, but go about things the wrong way. When I get to the point where I feel that I'm that good, I hope I don't act like you,..........I know I won't.
 
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Big Jon Grier was one of the first 100 TreeBuzz members here and a really great guy who took the time to answer many of my questions years ago.

I wish him the best of luck in his new career.

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Well, thank goodness for sake of that guy John that Chris spoke up, because after Daniel was posting about him, I was starting to really dislike that guy John.

"It was nothing for him to rope out a $2,800 tree, after putting in a full 8 hour climbing day on his regular job."

so from say 4pm to 7:30 pm he was performing $800 per hour?

wow! Is that what you are saying? After his regular job, it was nothing to go and do a $2800 tree removal by roping?

just because you throw out figures, doesn't make things more believable.

Liars always do that, throw out figures.

Supprized you didn't throw out someting like $2732.56.
 
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You've been exposed to a tiny fraction of the climbing community. You're in no position to hand out world class accolades.

Dude, if you mellowed... Just a little, everybody would mellow too. Your baseless arrogance makes you a lightning rod instead of a peer.

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I'd like to mellow Chip,
but you and your "peers" keep throwing out so much garbage, and I prefer to set the record straight... On the one hand you're right.. we could just call him a good tree climber and leave it at that.. On the other hand, its not my statement, that he's one of the most productive in the world.. That was made by one of his former co-workers, who has regularly finished in the top 10 at the ITCC and worked with the likes of Chisholm and other world class pros..

And I make it to emphazize a point.. just re-read the thread and look at the criticisms of the posted video.. made by whom.... some kids that were in 5th & 9th grade when the video was shot.. some solo operator that thinks he knows how to climb because he bought some fancy jingle-jangles etc... Do they look and think and try to learn... NO they look and talk crap about something that's over their heads, casue it boosts their egos...

And then the group mentality here takes over and its chaos.. And still no intelligent conversation on the climbing style.. no questions, no chance for a breakthrough .. just more crap... and you... you're on top of the pile...
 
OK then, don't mellow... and we can just do more of the same... although I'm beginning to think you have some sort of developmental disability so I'm feeling sorta guilty. It's only fun if I'm fighting with a huge fully equipped ego but if you're mentally broken then I'm not up for it anymore.
 
I got this note the other day... very well put:

What I see on the various threads criticizing your video, your technique and you personally are some very over reactive individuals with massive chips on their shoulders, or bored followers who need to get a life. Others, like Zeb Haney for example I see as being more on the reasonable side.

I've had the chance to climb and hang out with many arborists, in general the profession attracts and even requires a high degree of self-confidence, when any arborist attacks you for being an egomaniac it's too much the pot calling the kettle black.

Anyone with true self-confidence doesn't get all bent out of shape over someone posting video that shows how they do things. Half of these guys should be very embarrassed over what they've been posting, makes them look like idiots.

It's easy to sit back and nitpick from behind a keyboard.
 
"Anyone with true self-confidence doesn't get all bent out of shape over someone" ...getting upset and calling people names when they disagree with your 'how to' videos.

It's not that you have an ego, we all have one. I happen to think pretty highly of myself. It's your lack of self control that makes your ego intolerable. It's the fact that you actually believe everybody else can be wrong and you're right 100% of the time.

You're wrong about a lot of stuff, so is everybody else. You can't accept the idea that you can be wrong. You lack introspection. You're arrogant and you have nothing to back it up but some videos of average tree work.
Take that in contrast to Riggs who's arrogant with lots to back it up. He can post one still image to ten of your videos and it's obvious who's serious and who's a wannabe. The difference is, Riggs will admit a mistake and allow that he's as human as the rest of us. you on the other hand simply refuse to accept that you could make a mistake or learn something from someone else... as if your brain is full or something.

Nitpicking should be expected on the internet, self confidence allows us to filter what we accept and what we reject. Self control allows us to behave maturely and get upset every time someone disagrees with us.

With that said, I readily admit that ragging on you the way i do is immature, I can't help it, I know who you are by your behavior and your BS. I've had to work for idiots like you and they made doing good, satisfying work all but impossible. Busting your chops somehow makes me feel like I'm getting a sort of retribution.

Every time I try to take things down a notch you make some statement like, ".. just more crap... and you... you're on top of the pile... "
So, call it over-reacting or nit-picking if you want, I call it disgust.
 
I make mistakes...
its probably been a mistake to even try to enlighten any of you...
I make mistakes on the job too.. plenty.. made a lot of little mistakes this spring.. kind of like my head was in a fog..

BUT.. what you all think are mistakes and getting lucky.. AREN'T... over and over again.. When I show a complex rigging or falling scenario.. everything that happens is in the script.. there is no roll of the dice.. the fact that so few here seem to be able to see that, shows me that this level of work is above their heads..

Don't hate me cuase you ain't me!
 
I don't hate you, I think you're amusing.

You scenarios aren't really complex. I'll grant that what you planned to happen is what happened. Doing the back leaner that way you did it was good thinking... except for that whole shackle/skid steer thing. And that's what everybody else took exception to as well. There's good reason for it. Rope has limited capacity. Bend it sharply and then tension it and you've diminished that capacity very significantly. Anyone who's taken some time to learn about rope and it's application knows that. Add to that the fact that you don't know how much tension you're applying and you risk pushing it to failure. That's not disputed by anyone, it's common knowledge across all roped disciplines. So in that sense, you WERE lucky.

I understand that if you do something enough you develop a sense of whether you're pushing too far or not... but you can't put that in a how-to video and expect people to accept it as a formal method. It's a personal choice and a personal risk... not a generally accepted practice.

Tree guys do creative rigging all the time, at times it gets very complex but I think most agree that simple is much better and usually more productive. The current trend is to do less and less damage to the landscape and other plants, so watching a redbud or a dogwood get impact pruned immediately raises questions.

What your videos have depicted aren't unusual, lot's of us have pulled leaners back and let them fall sideways mid-pull to get them into a tight LZ... it's just tree work, it's intermediate to advanced but it's not cutting edge... it's not even new.

If you posted the videos as just videos of your work rather than instructional and accepted criticism calmly I think you would be received very differently. We don't want to have your methods shoved at us as though you're the tree god and we're just armchair tree hacks. We know what we're doing, you aren't the only one, we all put wood on the ground daily.

If you would simply accept that and recognize that you're one of us, not our superior, all this drama would just go away and I'd have to find another way to expend my energy... which i will gladly do.
 
Daniel- I have been a production arborist for 20 years and have done the things you have done on video. There came a point though where I became aware of what I was doing was not the safest way to do it. By listening to others, attending training seminars and trying new techniques in the field, I learned safer ways.

There are no absolutes in this industry. There is progression and learning that the things we did 20 years ago are not the safest ways to accomplish the same task today. Be safe.
 
I just hate how it ALWAYS comes down to Daniel telling everyone how stupid they are, THAT'S where I get burnt really, now that I think about it. Stop telling eveyone how dumb and uneducated they are. I do my best to be rational, and learn, speking of which, your signature knid of sets you up for failure too.

"If you want to learn something, start by thinking you know nothing and take it from there "


Does that just not apply to you??? and only to everyone else. .
 
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