Bid that tree!

85-90% of what I cut and climb are old aspens. I would rather be in any other tree than an old aspen. Have had them snap on me 20 feet off the ground several times. Go to drop them and they will buckle in the middle and you have 50' of tree coming down on top of you. If I have to go up an aspen I will always tie into a neighboring tree because I pretty much count on it collapsing on me somewhere along the line. Young ones (30 years or less) are not much of a problem. After that I don't trust them anymore than my sister-in-law.
 
Interesting. Sounds like a whole different beast than what we have here. Don't I've ever seen an Aspen 50' tall for one. That's funny though, I've said more than a few times I that I wish I could do just aspens lol
 
L3VI said:
Interesting. Sounds like a whole different beast than what we have here. Don't I've ever seen an Aspen 50' tall for one. That's funny though, I've said more than a few times I that I wish I could do just aspens lol
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Around here they get to about 75 feet and 28" base. Anything with a 16" base I am super careful of even if it looks perfectly healthy. They snap so damn easy.
 
Vicente said:
Nope so it wouldn't really be fair to charge extra for that since you're the only one it helps.
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The client doesn't know both prices. If I look at the job and decide I can comfortably do it myself I tell them $1500. If I decide a second set of hands is need I tell them $2000. They're free accept or decline. I'm just covering my overhead, same as any other company.

If you need to rent a piece of equipment for a job do you not factor that in to the estimate?

There are prices in here ranging from $900 to $3000 so it's all just arbitrary anyway.
 
Obviously costs need to be covered, we are businesses not charities, but you can't just add costs onto a job and charge more because of that. (I know that isn't exactly what you are saying, just adding to the conversation)

If I can do a job solo for $500, it would be wrong to bring eight guys and a crane, and charge $5,000 for the same job.

Obviously that is an intentionally absurd example, but it makes the point about a balance somewhere. Maybe you can charge a bit more because you can get it done faster and that is a benefit to the customer, but the idea of efficiently is more that you can do additional jobs in a day, hopefully to a higher quality, and generally that is where the added income takes place.
 
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Shadowscape said:
I agree with @Boomslang. Whether you bring in a second person or you bring in a crane, costs need to be covered.
That said, the client needs to be aware of what they are paying for and why.
@southsoundtree A good ground man can eliminate a lot of target damage.
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Agreed the client needs to be aware. Seeing as there's a lot of hardscape/walkways/house nearby, a low impact removal is all but a given. So I'd have to bring in somebody to ground for me.

I don't have employees, which means contracting that somebody. That cost needs to be factored in to the job. Period. I'm not talking about arbitrarily inflating prices. I'm talking about covering my expenses as a business.

Maybe I can get a second job out of the hired goon, maybe not. It all depends on what I have on the go. If I can split his cost between two or three clients then I can lower the customer cost. Say charge only $1700-$1800 on the final invoice, instead of $2000. But I would rather give the customer money back than ask for more, so I'm going to quote the maximum.
 
So, do you build an hourly rate based on what equipment and man power is needed? And/or do you have a universal flat rate that covers every scenario? For example, you charge $100/hr and bid the tree for $1000 (10 hours by yourself). Bringing on a second man should allow the job to be finished in 5 hours. Same cost. Half the time. And either you could call it a day or go get another job done.
This is at least how I see the question posed but it seems there’s a crux; if you have employees to keep busy, you may not be able to only charge X amount, even though the work can be done by just one guy. Either you have to charge more or eat the cost. Seems unfair to the client, but the laborers need fair compensation as well. These are thoughts I am often mulling over so it is interesting to see different approaches. My goal is always to be as fair as possible but I have found it difficult not to short myself. I am getting better.
*Thread derailment warning*
 
27RMT0N said:
Obviously costs need to be covered, we are businesses not charities, but you can't just add costs onto a job and charge more because of that. (I know that isn't exactly what you are saying, just adding to the conversation)

If I can do a job solo for $500, it would be wrong to bring eight guys and a crane, and charge $5,000 for the same job.

Obviously that is an intentionally absurd example, but it makes the point about a balance somewhere. Maybe you can charge a bit more because you can get it done faster and that is a benefit to the customer, but the idea of efficiently is more that you can do additional jobs in a day, hopefully to a higher quality, and generally that is where the added income takes place.
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It would also be equally asinine to bring eight guys and a crane and only charge $500.

I gave my estimates based off of three rudimentary pictures with no other context, which I would never do in real life for a job like that.
 
In my experiences the relationship between time and personnel is not always directly proportional. Two guys does not halve the time of one guy, because quite often the groundie is standing around waiting for the climber to reposition or the climber is waiting around for the groundie to clear the landing zone. (Unless both are very efficient and effective, which is like hitting the lottery) It's probably more like a third. So a 10 hour job doesn't become 5, but more like 6.5-7.

Anyway that's off topic, but also would be interesting to delve deeper into
 
Absolutely, and that is where the cost-curve graph comes into play. I may be a long-haired-leftist, but I also try to understand the nature of business and how the world works. It isn't that complex, even when it seems unjust.

The way I try and do things (which doesn't always pan out, for various reasons) is to have a rough formula of my hourly rate, an hourly rate for my ground crew, and a base/hourly rate for the necessary equipment. Plug estimated time into that formula, and you should get a number that is fair to everyone.

That way I'm always taking into account my time chatting with the customer doing the bid, my time writing it up, my time getting to and from the site if I get the job, PLUS the ground help, equipment, and skill/risk.

Yes, there are major benefits to economies of scale, and us small businesses often come out on the wrong side of that equation. That is why Walmart and Amazon are successful, even when it means the degradation of humanity as a whole.... But that is where honest, personal and quality service comes into play. I have an advantage here in that I'm on an island an hour from the mainland, with only a few thousand people. Everyone knows me, and that small community keeps me honest, and keeps me busy due to my solid reputation.
 
Bid this tree. Dying sequoia. 150’ish tall 9’6” in diameter. Good vehicle and crane access. Guy wire and communication wires in lower canopy on one side. All wood hauled.

This is the quote I’m currently working on.
 

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