Basal Anchor for MRS pulley climbing

Winchman

Well-Known Member
Actually, the two carabiners are steel Oxans. You're correct that they should be auto-locking, but there are two of them rated at 15kn open gate (probably a bit more closed but not screwed tight).

The thimble pops out easily, so the extra knot and thimble isn't likely to slow a rescue. Stowing it clipped to my ZZ ensures I get the backup in place and the gates screwed tight before I climb. The routine hasn't failed me yet.

There's not much friction at the PSP where I have friction savers, and I've always been able to slide the Distel hitch with no problem after climbing. I tried using a prussic at first, but it locked up badly even on a tree with no friction saver on the limb.

The local fire department personnel train on rope rescue techniques, so they're familiar with the equipment. If I'm not tied in with my lanyard, getting me down should be pretty simple.
 

Phil

Well-Known Member
Location
Oak Lawn, IL
There's not much friction at the PSP where I have friction savers, and I've always been able to slide the Distel hitch with no problem after climbing.
It's even worse for the distel if you have lower friction at the PSP than what a natural union would provide. It's not about how tight the hitch is after your climb is over. It's about how tight the hitch is with about 200 lbs of dead weight hanging from it. If you have the opportunity, set your system up and haul 200 lbs into it. Easiest of course if you have another climber willing to be your mannequin. With the weight hanging in the system, try your distel to lower them... I'll bet money it jamms up or gets crazy hot with a short distance. Try lowering it at incremental distances of 10', 20', 50'. See how it performs. Might be ok for short rescues but not 25' or more IMO. This is why the rope wrench exists. A conventional hitch will not function reliably in a single line configuration.
 

Stumpsprouts

Active Member
Location
Asheville
It's even worse for the distel if you have lower friction at the PSP than what a natural union would provide. It's not about how tight the hitch is after your climb is over. It's about how tight the hitch is with about 200 lbs of dead weight hanging from it. If you have the opportunity, set your system up and haul 200 lbs into it. Easiest of course if you have another climber willing to be your mannequin. With the weight hanging in the system, try your distel to lower them... I'll bet money it jamms up or gets crazy hot with a short distance. Try lowering it at incremental distances of 10', 20', 50'. See how it performs. Might be ok for short rescues but not 25' or more IMO. This is why the rope wrench exists. A conventional hitch will not function reliably in a single line configuration.
Do you use a lowerable basal?
Thoughts on munter mule?
 

Phil

Well-Known Member
Location
Oak Lawn, IL
Do you use a lowerable basal?
Thoughts on munter mule?
I don't for a myriad of reasons. The munter would be fine as long as it was backed up with a prusik...even if it was locked off with the mule. You have to account for the possibility that the rescuer might let go of the lowering line at any point. Just using the munter would be bad. I think everyone working at height with rope should know the munter for a quick repel option with minimal hardware.

If I was going to be using a basal tie, I would want something bomb proof. A rescue 8 backed up would work. So would a mini portawrap. I would also consider a petzl ID or something like that but them bad boys are expensive and I don't consider them bomb proof. There are so many ways to skin this cat.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
One, of many, base anchor systems I used over the years.

A detail I see...in the choked base anchor, left pic, there should be a stopper knot tied in the orange Tenex to secure prusik adjuster from moving.

The gold tool is called a Hewbolt. I would put two half hitches over the body of the Hewbolt for security.

A little more Hewbolt discussion:


 

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Winchman

Well-Known Member
I was expecting the rescuers would put some tension on the rope to reduce the load on the hitch and control the descent. That seems like a reasonable assumption for people with some training. If they can't figure that out, I'm probably better off staying in the tree for a while.
 

laddo

Member
Location
New Orleans, LA
So ive got a few pieces of 16 strand Hawkeye that came in a bag-o-rope from treestuff. I also have other basic gear to use.

What would be a solid, relatively quick, basal setup I could fashion together that would be easily lowerable? Details please


• Aim High, Climb Trees •
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
Location
Buffalo
How sure are you that the fire department understands friction hitches for descent or positioning? Do they use them?
If they saw a Petzl ID or a D4 descender or some similar mechanical it’d probably click right away, but I’m not sure if hitches are used at all in their field.

@rustykfd or @Steve Connally might have a little insight.
 

rustykfd

Active Member
Location
Pasco
How sure are you that the fire department understands friction hitches for descent or positioning? Do they use them?
If they saw a Petzl ID or a D4 descender or some similar mechanical it’d probably click right away, but I’m not sure if hitches are used at all in their field.

@rustykfd or @Steve Connally might have a little insight.

I would say low odds on most FD tech rescue guys being familiar with friction hitches. I’ve never seen them used in the fire service personally.


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Bart_

Well-Known Member
Location
GTA
Has anyone considered a second rope wrench added to a basal prussic to duplicate the lowering capability of the climbers hitch/wrench? Just a hitch would lock up, unless using trunk spiral wraps. Seems relatively cheap and bullet proof, fail safe - just know how to operate a prussic/hitch to do a lowering. And you gotta mean it to operate a prussic lowering a climber, no accidental mechanical device triggered lowering action.

Maybe add a small instruction tag that says "place hand here and pull to lower climber" in case the FD doesn't know ropes. Or the HO. Or a green groundie etc.

Just a thought.
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
Location
Buffalo
 
The criteria I had for the base anchor belay was...no instructions...no training...must pass whistle test...tolerate minor touching be brush and not trigger a fall.
Another comment is that if you do (FD comments above) then go to mechanical devices for a lowerable basal tie, some have "panic" function, some do not (there's that darn whistle thing again). So training may be required anyway (I remember Richard Mumford had a video years ago where he showed a basal setup with an instruction sheet). Also as in Richard's Hattier's (above) video, UK Good Climbing Practice manual, etc., setting up a lowerable system becomes a moot point if the injured climber is lanyard'd in at height anyway. Then it's probably a second climber going up for the rescue - maybe have a gander at some of the TreeStuff rescue videos (oh no, back to the two climb lines discussions !). Guess the point is, there's limitations to all these setups and to know what they are before needing them (even stuff like how's the branch going to do with a moving rope with the climber's weight sawing through it while lowering? etc.). Set up a system you like and practice using it before you need it for real. Wesspur's rescue course?
 
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Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
Trunk wrap belay brake.

In use I tie a slipped and locked half hitch below the friction hitch. There is always plenty of friction from the trunk wrap.

Simple and no cost. Everyone has an extra HMS biner and some cordage to make the sling.







anchor belay2.jpg
 

Phil

Well-Known Member
Location
Oak Lawn, IL
Holy balls that video gave me anxiety. "You must hold the rope here or the climber falls". Yeah no thanks. I barely trust myself let alone a coworker I probably talked shit to earlier in the day haha.

I did like his walkthrough of his frog setup. Good old school content.
 
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Winchman

Well-Known Member
Would having two wraps around the tree make it better or worse?

For Tom: I'm not getting notifications when new posts are made to threads I'm following. Can you fix that, please?
 

Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
Would having two wraps around the tree make it better or worse?

For Tom: I'm not getting notifications when new posts are made to threads I'm following. Can you fix that, please?
Two wraps would in true friction greatly, I would expect two wraps to add too much friction to lower a person, unless you were Andre the Giant, and even he might not be heavy enough.

I too have been missing my email notifications, I haven’t seen a single one in several days.
 

hseII

Well-Known Member
Location
United States
This has worked well for me.




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