Banned by Carl the Lumberjack

southsoundtree · Mar 17, 2020

rico said:
The "Tribal Elders"...A sect of super secret handshakes, pass codes, and grown men talking shit behind other members backs....No thanks... I got something to say I'm gonna say it directly, and would hope others would do the same.

A strong misrepresentation of the Elders Forum.

Lumberjack · Mar 17, 2020

cedar said:
I bought a NiftyLift SD64 from Carl in 2016. When I first bought the machine, I needed help from him with some electrical issues. He would not answer his phone or return my calls. Fortunately, I found local help or I'm not sure what I would have done to fix an almost brand new machine. I think Carl is a dishonest salesman who couldn't care less about his customers.

Had to do some looking to make sure "cedar" was in Virginia... with that comment it could really only be him though.

My phone with the text messages died last year or the year before that, so I lost most of the conversation. I still have some of it in emails though. I really hate losing my old message history, I hardly ever delete anything because sometimes the most random things develop significance.

I expect only the bored or curious will read the entirety of what's below. I underlined and made the main point bold.... I did stop answering Adam's calls and messages ~6-8 weeks into an issue and that is bad customer service. Read below if you want my recollection of events that lead to me ignoring Adam.

When you have a warranty issue with a Nifty, you have three options:
Do the work yourself.
Take the machine to a third party mechanic to preform the work.
If a major issue happens with the engine, it has to go to a Kubota dealer.

Before any warranty work is done, contact either Nifty or me (the dealer) to get the ball rolling.

Back to the details:
8/16/16 Invoice date of the demo lift Adam bought.
5/1/17 Adam contacted me about the luffing switch not working on the lift. I contacted Nifty's service guys to get some detailed guidance. At 1:47PM I sent him the instructions via text. I also sent himPaul (head service guy at Nifty USA) and told him we had had a tornado the day before and things were crazy.

Adam didn't feel comfortable doing the work and wanted Dove Truck Service to work on the machine. I said was fine and to have them contact/deal directly with Paul to get the issue resolved.

5/6/17 I get a picture of the invoice for $340 with a description of "Diagnose/Repair Boom (Does not lift issue) (Fixed broken ramp for switch)" for 4 hours of work with Adam asking if warranty will pay for it. I reply that they should have been in touch with Paul and asked for details about what a "broken ramp switch" meant.

5/18/17 I get a message saying the luffing switch wasn't working again and the mechanics were coming out to work on it some more. I reply that it's unusual for a problem to reoccur (if it's been fixed).

5/19/17 Adam says the mechanic stopped by and thinks a wire is pinched. Adam is going to take the lift back to him the following week so he can find the pinched wire.

5/31/17 Adam says via text the work on the lift costs another $1020 and that the mechanic says it needs a new harness and it should be put on by a qualified Nifty Lift tech. Note nothing was actually done in terms of fixing the issue, but Adam wants Nifty to reimburse $1360 of "work" on the lift that hasn't fixed anything.

Adam and I get on the phone. I say that Nifty can't pay for 16 hours of labor that accomplished nothing. Adam gets livid (rightfully so or otherwise) so with one hand I get out the tools, open an SD64 in the shop, and with Adam on the phone I verified 2 of the 3 things Paul had told Adam to check in under 5 minutes. I pointed out that Adam picked the mechanic shop, I told Adam to have them deal with Paul directly, and now he's irate that I don't know what's going on but two bills from his mechanic with nothing accomplished doesn't make sense. I also pointed out that with one hand and 5 minutes I was able to check 2/3 of the system that the couldn't figure out in 16 hours. I recant and say I can't speak for Nifty Lift or Paul since I'm just a dealer.... maybe they'll pay, maybe they won't. I didn't authorize any work, it's not my rodeo.

Adam texts me Dove's phone number. I called, left a message, and it was never returned. I text Adam that and posted out it was weird that Dove was charging Adam if they were dealing with Paul directly. Adam says Paul told him to pay the bill and send the invoice to Nifty for reimbursement (Adam and Paul were talking directly, Paul forwarded me an email from Adam).

So during this month, I started with the service then handed it off to Paul directly since it was out of my depth. Adam was taking the lift to a mechanic of his choosing and they were supposed to deal directly with Nifty.

They bill for 16 hours of work on the lift but didn't accomplish anything. Adam paid their bill, then called me looking for a fix (when he was already dealing directly with Nifty on the issue). Adam looses his cool (I don't care, people get flustered, it happens) on the phone over an issue I've not been managing with for weeks, since the head service guy/head of the warranty department was handling it directly. I didn't help his anger when I pointed out the invoices were highly suspect and illustrated that I could do most of what Paul said to check in the first text message (from 5/1/17) in 5 minutes with one hand while on the phone.

Those details were from an email dated 6/1/17. At the end of the email I gave Paul the contact info for Dove's Truck service as well as the phone number Adam gave me for a particular person there. In this email I included the pictures of the receipts from Dove as well as screen shots of my conversation with Adam to make sure Paul knew all that I knew at that point.

Going from memory, I never heard from Dove/the mechanic. I told Adam repeatedly to have the mechanic deal with Nifty directly, no point in me talking to Paul to parrot the information to the mechanic and go back and forth.

Some time in mid-late June, after being involved in the issue for over a month after the mechanic was supposed to be dealing with Nifty directly and dealing with Adam's short fuse, I stopped dealing with it. Adam wasn't following instructions, was paying invoices for work that didn't fix or diagnose anything, and he was becoming increasingly displeasing to converse with. Is it good customer service to stop talking to a customer? NO, it isn't, and I freely admit that. By the same token I had spent hours on the phone/texting Adam over the previous weeks and the main issues stemmed from him not following SIMPLE directions. At some point enough is enough, judging by the time stamps I'm guessing my enough was ~6-8 weeks after my involvement should have stopped because Adam and the mechanic of his choosing were dealing with Nifty directly.

The caveat being if Nifty dropped the ball or wasn't holding up their end of the deal then I being the dealer should hold their feet to the fire regardless of my involvement with the repair. However, Nifty wasn't the problem.

Here's my earliest dated proof that Adam was dealing with Nifty directly regarding the issue:

Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 1.46.10 PM.webp

And here's the email I sent Paul to make sure he had everything I knew about the situation... sent on 6/1/17.

Lumberjack · Mar 17, 2020

SomethingWitty said:
...I hate crying old men. Your grandfathers would be ashamed.

I'm something like 27 months older than you. There's no chance my grandfathers would be ashamed of my actions.

I'm ok with the banning being viewed as petty, l'm not going to lose sleep over it.

SomethingWitty · Mar 17, 2020

Lumberjack said:
I'm something like 27 months older than you. There's no chance my grandfathers would be ashamed of my actions.

I'm ok with the banning being viewed as petty, l'm not going to lose sleep over it.

It's impossible to be a salesman without being able to sell things to yourself.
Those few of us who would rather have true peace of mind than a dollar rarely have a knack for not losing sleep.
I didn't read your pitch. It's too long and I don't care that much about your problems.

Mark Chisholm · Mar 17, 2020

One thing is for sure Carl, you are putting in the work now and seems you have some proof to at least prove that you feel you've done what you feel is right (or you wouldn't be posting this) I applaud the transparency.

TopNotchEquipment · Mar 17, 2020

Because we have been mentioned in this thread. We just want to clarify that Top Notch Equipment as of July 2017 is owned 100% by Dustin Breiwick, as Dave has moved on to Branch Manager Attachments on his own. We acknowledge Dave and Carl had a falling out during the time prior to Dustin and Dave separating TNE and BM. The decisions and actions made by Dave were not agreed with by Dustin. We have no problem continuing to work with either and strive to continue bringing the Arborist community new innovative equipment and attachments to help grow their business’s by making work easier and more profitable.

We have been importing Cast Loaders for 2 years now and have recently added Ausa compact tele-handlers, Manitou Loaders & MEWPS and CMC lifts. If there is anything we can assist with give us call 763-398-0079 to discuss any of your needs currently or in the future.

Thank You,

Dustin, Harry and the entire Top Notch team

deevo · Mar 18, 2020

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I bought a chipper from Carl @Lumberjack after the TCIA expo in 2015 can’t believe it’s been that long

and was a great buy, transaction went smooth, being I’m up in Canada, Carls in the south. Chippers been running great ever since. He’s helped me out on loaders as well, I eventually bought an Avant even though he said giant lol! He’s offered me probably hours of advice and have been a friend and customer since. He’s a solid Trustworthy guy! I’ve also got a BMG grapple which I’ve been extremely happy with as well.

Barc Buster · Mar 18, 2020

Did I miss the memo where we were skipping summer and fall and moving directly to Festivus and the airing of grievances?

This is kind of a bad look for both parties really. I'm sure both Carl and Dave are good people deep down.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say purse swinging on the internet probably isn't going to solve anything. Let's all climb a tree or something and chill out.

tnttree · Mar 18, 2020

Barc Buster said:
Did I miss the memo where we were skipping summer and fall and moving directly to Festivus and the airing of grievances?

This is kind of a bad look for both parties really. I'm sure both Carl and Dave are good people deep down.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say purse swinging on the internet probably isn't going to solve anything. Let's all climb a tree or something and chill out.

Good advice - I do not want this drama to digress farther

Carl IS a good Human

Lessons learned ( I should have known better)
Partnerships can be rough
Heard of many horror partner stories in my time in Biz
Unintended negative consequences manifest themselves out of the Blue
the dating period is always great and optimistic
the marriage will change, when realities settle in

partnerships can be very beneficial to both parties
fewer and farther between are the great partner success stories I have witnessed
All I can say is
write it down -- write it down -- memories are short -- most men don't listen well (like me)
document the agreement terms accurately
address all foreseen consequences in writing
document conflict clauses to resolve negatives
I am sure Google - has agreement templates

Best to all with the real problems of the world facing us
A time for all of us humans to be "partners"

jmcscrap · Mar 20, 2020

We all make mistakes - written, unwritten or even misconstrued. I know Dave, have no idea who Lumberjack is..... My guess, Dave is solid and so is Lumberjack. They represent two sides, both right, both wrong - but through no fault of their own.

We ALL make decisions based off the best interest of who we are........

Work for a client who wants something we don't necessarily agree with and get paid? Feed the family and move on? Pay employees so they can feed their families? Go to Wal-Mart and get the needed supplies so we can live a "normal" life and risk being called a "bad American" because we didn't adhere to self quarantine suggestions?????

Too many times we get caught up in a he said-he said ordeal. WHY???? Everyone has a "side" and what gets resolved?

Has anyone's mind ever been changed on the internet? CALL each other and hear the tone, feelings, intent of what the real issue is. Make up - don't make up - have a conversation that matters and make that decision. Move on, be yourself and stay safe!!!!!

Daniel · Mar 20, 2020

I remember Carl uploading pictures of his prom dates. just a kid in high school. He received a lot of good advice from many good tree people and ran with the ball. Always wished him well.

there are always going to be problems in the world, business etc. Best to let the little stuff go and not hold resentment. The world is about to kick us all in the teeth. The more we stick together the better

rico · Apr 22, 2020

Carl the Lumberjack...the kind of man who runs a forum where members are allowed to use terms like "eating a bag of dicks" when referring gay folks, but dare to challenge that kind of ignorance, or those who spew it, and your skating in thin ice...Carl the Lumberjack...the kind of man who will ban you at the drop of a hat if your dare to call him on HIS bullshit...Carl the Lumberjack? Fucking Please!

Jemco · Apr 22, 2020

My reason for quitting MB's TreeHouse is simple.

The dishonesty in altering a member's post, post count etc.

Carl has carried on Butch's tradition unfortunately......

A matter of principle in my book, honesty.

Jemco

rico · Apr 22, 2020

Makes you realize just how great this forum is. On top of being the most informative site for a working climber that I have found, the mods do an amazing job of herding a bunch of Arbs....They stay out of the mix for the most part and let us freely speak our minds, and will only step in when someone goes way off the rails. Lord knows I can get dangerously close, and even step over the edge sometimes, but when I do one of the mods will step in and gently nudge back to the center of the road. All done without putting themselves in the middle of the dust up, or bringing bias into their decision...

Lumberjack · Apr 22, 2020

Jemco said:
...Carl has carried on Butch's tradition unfortunately......

How would you have any knowledge of how I'm running the TreeHouse, Jemco? Considering I don't modify posts or post counts, I can't see how you have a valid.

rico said:
Carl the Lumberjack...the kind of man who runs a forum where members are allowed to use terms like "eating a bag of dicks" when referring gay folks, but dare to challenge that kind of ignorance, or those who spew it, and your skating in thin ice...Carl the Lumberjack...the kind of man who will ban you at the drop of a hat if your dare to call him on HIS bullshit...Carl the Lumberjack? Fucking Please!

Considering you never reported any posts, do you expect me to look in every thread for things you might find offensive? Doing a search for those key words, I found some posts in the Trump thread... the specific thread I told you I don't go in unless someone reports something.

The ONLY posts I've had reported since I've been running the TreeHouse have been your posts, and those reporting the posts aren't people who have a grudge against you, they're people tired of seeing your personality lashing out and acting the way you do.

I asked you to straighten up, you declined. Not a big deal or tough decision for me. I don't go into the Trump thread because there's nothing there that interests me. If you couldn't handle political threads, perhaps you should have stayed out of them. If you can't take it, it's also probably best to not dish it out.

Merle Nelson · Apr 22, 2020

Leadership can be a lonely path. You'll never have 100% agreement with your decisions. That being said, anyone who wants to, can find Carl to be as straight a shooter as any human being there is. Also anyone who wants to get along can easily find a way to do so.

rico · Apr 23, 2020

Your a coward and a liar Carl. You were smack dab in the middle of the political threads and you knew exactly what was going on because you were participating in it....You were there when one of your members brought the gay couple who sued the Oregon baker into the conversation... You were there when he started talking hate filled nonsense that he couldn't back up with facts... You were there when another one of your members use the term "eating a bag of dicks" to describes the gay couple, all while he was defending the baker who refused to bake the gay folks a wedding cake...You were there when 2 of your members started slinging some serious insults at me...

I'm a big boy and actually enjoy mixing it up with ignorant rubes, but you inserted yourself in the middle of it and threatened to shut me down... Not a word to the "bag of dicks" fella or his merry band of idiots... Nope....

Then one of those idiots thought it would be cool to bring his beef outside off the political arena and into the treework arena. He poked the bear and I responded to said idiot with a little fun loving ribbing and you promptly drop your ultimatum on me. Straighten up or your gone. Please! I made a post gently pointing out (you deleted) the hypocrisy in your stance and you banned me....Your a fucking punk Carl ... Plain and simple.....Your loss bro...

Jemco · Apr 23, 2020

A quick read of my last post at the treehouse'll tell the tale Carl.

Who modified my posts, Butch's ghost?

Jemco

ppsavage · Apr 23, 2020

Butch made the th kinda cool, he had the funky flavor and an awesome life story. One of a kind for sure.

Lumberjack · Apr 23, 2020

rico said:
If figured you would show up and try and defend the indefensible Carl..

Your a coward and a liar Carl. You were smack dab in the middle of the political threads and you knew exactly what was going on because you were participating in it....You were there when one of your members brought the gay couple who sued the Oregon baker into the conversation... You were there when he started talking hate filled nonsense that he couldn't back up with facts... You were there when another one of your members use the term "eating a bag of dicks" to describes the gay couple, all while he was defending the baker who refused to bake the gay folks a wedding cake...You were there when 2 of your members started slinging some serious insults at me...

I'm a big boy and actually enjoy mixing it up with ignorant rubes, but you inserted yourself in the middle of it and threatened to shut me down... Not a word to the "bag of dicks" fella or his merry band of idiots... Nope....

Then one of those idiots thought it would be cool to bring his beef outside off the political arena and into the treework arena. He poked the bear and I responded to said idiot with a little fun loving ribbing and you promptly drop your ultimatum on me. Straighten up or your gone. Please! I made a post gently pointing out (you deleted) the hypocrisy in your stance and you banned me....Your a fucking punk Carl ... Plain and simple.....Your loss bro...

Cool story, no basis in fact, but it certainly sounds "good" and has your typical passion.

I've had 89 posts in the Coronavirus thread and an additional 9 posts in the political forum over the past 2.5 years (looked back on the previous 4 pages/80 threads). The only thread I've posted in since your latest return was the Cv thread, 39 of my 89 posts were before you came back.

In less than a month you made 423 posts at the House. 62.4% of them were in the political forum. Point being you clearly spent more time in the areas that obviously offended you and had grievous wrongs that only you could possibly hope to fix. A report button is obviously beneath you or more accurately it would be a quagmire for you to report anyone because you were certainly in that conversation instigating and provoking the situations.

I started going back to find the post where you said you like to wind people up and watch them spin out, but a couple searches didn't bring it up and I don't feel like spending more the time at the moment.

You get bent out of shape if someone calls you a name, but you freely call them names. Things must be boring and sheltered in California.

Jemco said:
A quick read of my last post at the treehouse'll tell the tale Carl.

Who modified my posts, Butch's ghost?

Jemco

Oh, I added some rules that corrected the spelling of the presidents' names across the forum. I remember you getting bent out of shape about that, didn't know that person and you were the same. It's laughable to think I went into your posts and changed your words on an individual basis.

Some pretty wild censorship over at the House!