Banned by Carl the Lumberjack

[tnttree]

Kinda Stupid S**** to bring up during a pandemic - feels pathetic actually

Shortly after Butchs departure (RIP)
After a 14 year membership I have been banned from MasterBlasters Treehouse
All over a personal falling out between Carl and I years back
When all this went down Butch and I talked about it - And he never banned me
Carl deleted all his positive BM and machine posts -- basically taking his ball and running home
It was his choice to cut off communication with me so at his choice there was no dialog possible to a reasonable resolution.
I have no way to present my side of the story.
As in any conflict there is usually some truth on both sides, I have not seen what Carl has said about me - But I hear it is scathing.
I certainly will take responsibility for my actions, I can only assume he will not accept any opposing narrative thus his banning me from the site.
I will not air Carls dirty laundry in a childish tit for tat. Plenty of people know the full story.
He is certainly a brilliant young man and has contributed a lot to the industry, and frankly it pained me when I lost him as a friend - again his choice.

I resent my reputation being besmirched, and I ask my friends who know me to wonder if the whole story is being told

In this crazy uncertain time, with isolation looming over all, It hurts to be cut off from a community I have become very fond off. And I feel I still have relevant Information I can share with my Arb Brothers.

You would think in this free country that a personal grudge would not squelch communication between other forum members
Pretty sure Butch would have ousted me years ago - as he knew of Carls grudge -
if it was truly that egregious.

I humbly ask to be unbanned from the Tree house, and wish to put this drama behind me.
I certainly Hope Carl can heal - a grudge is a terrible thing to carry around

However this works out, To my Treehouse brothers - adios, I guess and thanks for all the camaraderie and good vibes over the years

there are certainly more important things for us all to concern our selves over, I wish good health to all, and speedy end to this Panic Demic

Thanks to the Buzz for giving me this voice

 

[rico]

Welcome to the world of the "besmirched" tnttree... Come on in, the water is warm...

Its the word of interwebs and the google box, so who cares if some dude is "besmirching" your reputation online...Fuck em'....

Your Family.. Your community. Your co-workers...Those are the ones who actually matter......

 

[flushcut]

 

[rico]

The "Tribal Elders"...A sect of super secret handshakes, pass codes, and grown men talking shit behind other members backs....No thanks... I got something to say I'm gonna say it directly, and would hope others would do the same.

 

[flushcut]

Bump for Rich.

 

[treebilly]

No need. I have nothing to add to this. I’ve had conversations with both parties and get along with both.

 

[Brocky]

It’s discussed in the Elders forum, sounding a lot like AS over there now.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Adult adolescent male drama

 

[rico]

Now might be a really good time to thank Tom, Mark, Gregg, and the others for keeping this place the #1 tree forum on the inter-webs, and doing an amazing job of dealing with all the different personalities and somehow keeping it relatively drama free around here...Surely not an easy task....

 

[Mark Chisholm]

Now might be a really good time to thank Tom, Mark, Gregg, and the others for keeping this place the #1 tree forum on the inter-webs, and doing an amazing job of dealing with all the different personalities and somehow keeping it relatively drama free around here...Surely not an easy task....

I appreciate that Erik. It actually is easier than most think in that most of the members understand and respect the way we interact and ask others to do the same. It's as simple as being respectful and speaking like you're face to face. We all get a little heated sometimes, but that's when we or you guys step in and remind us of the right way to act.

 

[Mark Chisholm]

Well Dave, I can't help with anything except tell you that you are welcome here. I hope it helps.

 

[Lumberjack]

I don't expect anything positive to come from this, but I do have customers that have found me from this forum and I don't see a reason to not repost what I said in private at my forum. I don't consider any of it talking shit, a member asked and I explained my logic.

I've reread what I wrote and aside from the typos, it doesn't read angry, scathing, or otherwise excitable to me... it lays out some information.



"Yes, I booted Dave without ceremony.

We had a falling out in November 2016 when he did all he could to get all he could for himself at the expense of everyone around him. Following that, he used his clout to impede my equipment dealership's access to the lines I was selling (Giant and Boxer come to mind).

Being 3.5 years ago, the details come in spurts that are out of order but here's some examples:
@August Hunicke wanted to buy a Giant 254T from me. I tried placing the order and couldn't get anyone on the phone at Giant... a week or so later I finally get up with the head sales dude and he says that Dave essentially doesn't want them to do business with me and if they do, it will hurt their relationship with him. He had some larger number of machines in limbo at the time. Long story short, I get the shaft and August buys a CX100.

October 2015 I paid my own way to Europe to help work out bringing Giant/Branch Manager machines to the US.

August 2016 I flew up to MN to have a meeting with Dave and Dustin (who had a falling out shortly after my falling out with him) to work out how the distributorship (Branch Manager/Top Notch) and dealership (Compact Equipment Store, my company) was going to flow. Dave was too busy to meet at the office (after I flew 1k miles to be there)... I end up going to his house and nothing is finalized, he's too busy prepping machines... basically a wasted trip in terms of my benefit.

Sept 2016 I go to Jambo to pick up my 254T from Dave and take it home for testing/videos/marketing. Dave tells me not to publish anything, he wants to be first. Weird since he makes as much off any machine I sell as I would being a dealer, but I make nothing on any machine he sells... but ok. I get home with the machine and see Adrian (RangerDanger, just remembered this... just banned him too, he hasn't signed in since 2017) posting videos and pictures of the machines. He's working for Erik (Tree Care Inc in Dayton, OH) who was the money behind Dave at that point (My understanding is they fell out a year or so after we did), he's posting what I was expressly told not to post.

Mid-Late October 2016 I find out that Dave is selling machines to end users for under $32k but charging me as a dealer over $35k for literally same machine. This brought the situation to a head. I was over $10k out of pocket helping to bring Giant to the US only to find Dave was selling machines hugely below my cost as a dealer. Almost every state has laws against that, but you'd think that's an affront to common decency. At this point I had been getting paid to sell for Dave/Top Notch for 4 years, unpaid for an additional 5 years.


Some other notable mentions related to that time:
May 2014, Top Notch Equipment owes me $25k in commissions (half of the profit of what I sold through them like Gehls and Boxers) but doesn't have it. They pay me what they could and I took @arborworks1 2500 hour Boxer trade in for the rest. I finally got out of it what I had in it Thanksgiving 2015.

Sometime in 2015 before the Europe trip the TNE/BM office manager/secretary comes out of the blue saying I owed them $18k more than I have records for. I tell her that's impossible that even if we swap invoices, every time I sold anything from a vendor (be it Top Notch, Branch Manger, Nifty Lift, Terex, etc), I put the amount I owed for it into a separate account and it's impossible that I accidentally misplaced $18k. Over a few phone calls totaling a couple hours the $18k number is down to $6k with more strings left to pull and see where she allocated what money. On the Europe trip Dave and I are walking through some little down in the Netherlands when the subject comes up (due to another issue stemming from a lack of proper book keeping/filing) and he says the problem is on his end and to not worry about spending more hours digging through there books to figure out where she put the last $6k.

October 2016, Dave holds an order for a grapple or something I'd sold/placed the order for (as a dealer, first time he's ever held an order). He states I need to pay my ~$5k invoice from Top Notch.... I point out that Top Notch has owed me $3500 for a month longer than that invoice (and it was common to swap invoices).

October 2016, Dave says I'm very greedy and all about the money for being irritated as a dealer I'm paying more than end users he's selling directly to. That really rubbed me the wrong way considering the history of our relationship.

Sometime in 2017ish it comes out that the office manager/secretary was actually embezzling... go figure.


Things going on at the time, which Dave knew about (prior to November 2016).
April 2016, I get married. Knock up the wife a couple months later, due date of March 2017.

December 2016, we expect my mother to die from complications related to her cancer. Unexpectedly she pulls an instant recovery from that complication.

Jan 2017, Carly, my daughter is born 2 months early. Spends 9 relatively easy days in the hospital and is released.

Feb 2017, 19 days after Carly is born, my mother dies from a stroke.


I easily just killed an hour going down that memory lane... long story short not only did he accuse me of being all about the money and being greedy (business is about money, but I've bent over backwards to not be greedy), he sabotaged my relationships with Giant and Boxer, waste weeks of my time and well over $10k of my money (plus several times that a year in potential sales lost) at a time when I was helping a sick mother, officially starting a family and bringing a daughter into the world. Dave had a falling out with myself, his (step) son, his former sales manager (went with his son), the former importer for Giant machines and several others during the past years. All that sums up into him not being welcome here, regardless of his former good guy status.

Since I don't like making opinions without something verifiable (my reputation notwithstanding) here's my invoice for the 254T I drove 550 miles to pick up. $35.3k. Note the serial number is 16022 CARL. (Redacted the addresses on the invoices).

And Here's Dave C's quote for the same machine (compare serial numbers): It's $2k cheaper than a higher spec'ed machine he'd already priced him. You can see the quoted price is $31.6k, or $3.7k cheaper than the price I was invoiced as a dealer.

"

Screenshot:


"

Then another member who made a $5k deposit on a Branch Manager 254T posted on the thread which reminded me another kerfuffle regarding those machines. Ironically there's a member here that also paid the $5k deposit/early adopters fee ~8 months before receiving his machine. The theory was they'd pay $5k up front for $7500 credit on the machine, and since the machines weren't going to be discounted, they'd receive the best pricing for helping get the first machines sold before they were ever made.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Sorry to hear about Butch.

I trust my gut and I've always had good feelings from you, Dave. Cheers!

 

[rico]

Well it looks like its time to setup the cage and let you 2 settle your shit once and for all... Eye poking, scratching, biting, and kicks to the groin area are strictly forbidden though ladies.....

 

[Pelorus]

@ Carl: I was sad to hear of MB's passing.
All the best to you Carl. I'm another guy who hasn't logged onto the TreeHouse forum for several years.
Hope the passage of time will eventually mend the rift between you and Dave.

 

[tnttree]

Carl,
I am glad you could vent that all out, its healthy
Soooo no good deed will go unpunished, on both parties
As I suspected
certainly some truth to your memory lane
but also also events taken out context and misrepresentation of events and facts
Some things conveniently left out
actions from both parties went negative, no doubt
Butt I am not going into this morass to argue detail

and if I did -nobody cares to read our negative energy drama
more importantly its not relative or beneficial to members of this or any forum
Personal animosity (I think) should not ban anybody from positive forum communication

I hold no malice towards you Carl,
sorry to hear about your mom
my best to you and yours during this worlds troubling times

 

[tnttree]

TreeBuzz and Treehouse my apologies for the stink wafting from this Drama thread

Its a been a Joy to have met many great people and share innovative ideas on both the Buzz and House over many years

After the loss of my daughter, kinda dropped off visiting forums - dropped FB
Didn't feel much like posting unless It seemed relative to the tree Biz, or I if could inject a smile
or helpful experience
I certainly have received uncountable smiles, Ideas, and education from people on these sites

Given the upcoming National lock down I imagine this site will be quite busy,
we can all use a few extra smile these days

Thank you Mark Tom, & Butch for creating community and these valuable communication tools

 

[tnttree]

Well Dave, I can't help with anything except tell you that you are welcome here. I hope it helps.

I'm honored - it does

 

[cedar]

I bought a NiftyLift SD64 from Carl in 2016. When I first bought the machine, I needed help from him with some electrical issues. He would not answer his phone or return my calls. Fortunately, I found local help or I'm not sure what I would have done to fix an almost brand new machine. I think Carl is a dishonest salesman who couldn't care less about his customers.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I bought a NiftyLift SD64 from Carl in 2016. When I first bought the machine, I needed help from him with some electrical issues. He would not answer his phone or return my calls. Fortunately, I found local help or I'm not sure what I would have done to fix an almost brand new machine. I think Carl is a dishonest salesman who couldn't care less about his customers.

That's not fair. He just didn't care about you at that particular moment. That doesn't mean he never cares about any customers.

@tnttree
@Lumberjack
It looks like at least one person says that each of you guys are basically just salesmen. Both of you should understand that there is no such thing as a successful salesman who hasn't done things to make money that they should be ashamed of.
They're very much like politicians.
You both surely deserve your enemies and maybe your friends. It is petty to ban him from not your forum where he has had a presence for many years for no reason other than you don't like him.

I hate crying old men. Your grandfathers would be ashamed.