BAIL OUT KIT - for work in a hazard tree

SingleJack · May 20, 2011

It's ALWAYS a worry when working in a hazard tree. Anyway, had to piece down a dead (hazard) tree last month. Set guy-lines and set my TIP in a nearby healthy tree. Everything worked fine but that job got me thinking about finding an easy, safe way to lanyard into a hazard tree and a safe way to 'bail-out' if things went bad. I hate working around guy-lines. They're always in the way of; the climber, pieces, climb lines, rigging lines ... And, I hate the idea of whipping out a knife or saw to cut my lanyard.

So, I took a single-eye sling, added a friction hitch, a panic snap and made a video (link below) of my first attempt at a quick release 'lanyard'. It's for work positioning in a hazard tree, ONLY! Life support is in a nearby 'safe' tree. It will be interesting to get some constructive feedback about the concept:

PANIC SNAP Quick Release Work Positioning Lanyard system for work in a 'hazard' tree.

A lifeline TIP is set in a nearby 'safe' tree.

Work in a hazard tree with a quick release lanyard consisting of a eye sling, a hitch and a panic snap.

If an escape is necessary, a single pull on the panic snap will disconnect the climber from the hitch & sling. There is nothing to 'pull through' or 'hang-up' in the hazard tree. The panic snap is close to the climber's saddle out of the way and designed to avoid accidental release yet readily available to be released by the climber. In addition the use of a hitch on a single-eye sling could allow the hitch to pull off the end of the sling in extreme load emergencies.

The lanyard position shown is set high for illustration of the concept. However, the lanyard could be set level with the saddle for a normal topping cut or blocking down. For that matter, the lanyard could be set almost anywhere that facilitates safe work positioning, much like any lanyard.

The panic snap is the key element. The hitch could be virtually any friction hitch and is a matter of personal preference.

It should be noted a panic snap will work on anything it fits over: various ropes, endless slings, small friction savers, small loopies, small whoopies, etc., etc. However, care must be taken that the 'swinging-gate' can swing clear of any obstruction (about 1") - otherwise it may not release.

BAIL OUT KIT {video link}

Panic Snap photo:

markprz · May 20, 2011

Re: BAIL OUT KIT - for work in a hazard tree *DELETED*

Post deleted by markprz

PUClimber · May 21, 2011

If you have it set up to where you are tied into another tree and going to swing away from any of the hazard my vote is cut the lanyard and let her fly. You're going to end up banged and bruised from the swing most likely but hopefully you've got it set up to where you'll live to fight another day.

Frax · May 21, 2011

I wonder about this too. Never want to be lanyarded onto something that fails even if your TIP is secure.

I have heard of incorporating a tearaway chainsaw lanyard into a work positioning lanyard. This should fail by itself at 200 pounds pull, no need to react, and you should be released.

I'm not saying this out of experience - just a viable option that could be considered. Heard this idea from smeone who is knowledgeable.

treestyler · May 21, 2011

If it's not safe to climb don't climb it !

If you can use a nearby tree to work out it's oke, but if you do not even trust the tree to lanyard in.....you should think hard about getting a crane on the job.

No dodgy horse panic snaps, or other not rated materials in treework !

All with all it's mostly the customers fault he decided to let the tree dead for years on and all off a sudden we have to remove it safely without causing damage to property. It's his problem and I won't make it mine and sure as he*ll won't risk my life for one off these deathride trees.

just fell it with a bucket or crane it down, after all it's not my problem, it's the customers and we only can do our best to get things done without causing damage. Nobody wants us to do highly risk climbs wich can cost our lives.

stick to the proper gear and live a day longer

climb safe
wouter

GibsonTreeCare · May 21, 2011

agreed man, wholeheartedly

just finished a hazard tree, one of the 3 stems was rotten, the other had a huge split from a recent windstorm...ratchet strapped the split, but it was on a leader that went out on a 60-70 degree angle, then up into 4 tops, freaked me out the whole time I was in it.

I was tied in to the main leader of the 3 stems, I knew it had some rot too, but still had some holding wood to it.

it was only after rigging down the bad stem, Then the main stem; that I saw exactly how rotten the main stem was, love it when you see that

launchster · May 21, 2011

Yeah i had a similar job this week, was supposed to be a simple crown lift on a large ash to improve the casting space for some fisherman at the nearby fishing lodge. did a tree inspection from the ground and everything looked sound,just one 10ft long prob 20" diamter dead stem to remove half way up. I climbed up,got my climbing line set then noticed some ash heart rot funghi at the base of the dead stem. felled the stem, which had an inch of holding wood round the outside and a big hole in the centre, i put my hand down the hole and could reach right back up inside the main stem as well,which was hollow and which i was tied into.freaked me out for the rest of the tree lol

ArborCut · May 21, 2011

so you can get a bucket or crane in anywhere?

ArborCut · May 21, 2011

I like the idea ,good thinking.

SingleJack · May 21, 2011

Mark, you've made the most profoundly constructive comments so far! But, let me first address Wouter's very valid concern:
[ QUOTE ]
If it's not safe to climb don't climb it ! ...

[/ QUOTE ]
I whole heartedly agree. It's important to stress: I would NEVER use (or recommend) a Panic Snap as life support.

However, there are those trees that fall into the 'gray-area': no crane access, there is a nearby 'safe' tree, the hazard must go ... can a Bail Out Kit make those jobs a little bit safer??? … maybe … that's why I'm looking for comments.

[ QUOTE ]
Ok Jack... I'll bite...
What are the technical specs on the snap?
Release pressure, holding pressure, ability to handle side loads, connecting ring rating, hinge rating, wear characteristics....
Interested in unintended release possibility....

[/ QUOTE ]
I've done some research - found three types of Panic Snaps; zinc (?), steel (160lbs wll), and brass (500lbs wll).
I picked the steel; first, because it's strong enough for work positioning (not life support), second, a magnet will identify that it's not zinc or brass-plated zinc.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm also wondering about the psychological issues surrounding it's use... will I use a newfound sense of (false) security when assessing how to work on a tree that I should stay far away from?
How does one train for it's use?
How do we account for the differences in perception of other climbers? ...

… someone WITHOUT the knowledge, skills and experience to use this safely will get in deep trouble.... but in the right hands..in the right situation.... it may provide the margin of safety required to 'slay the dragon'....

... just trying to imagine handing this kit to my up-and-coming young climber.... thinking how he'll react and what he'll do with it. Will he think "The boss gave me this to make it safe to work in dead trees: so it must be ok"....?

… I'm not even sure how to test this little jewel in a realistic scenario.... Do we set a 'rule of thumb' for a reversing pendulum angle? Clear the tie-in tree of stubs and branches? ...

[/ QUOTE ]

First let me re-state: A PANIC SNAP IS NOT LIFE SUPPORT!
You raise some very good points. I believe some 'protocols' need to be established for using any escape system like a Bail Out Kit. I have some thoughts on how I plan to use the system:

WHEN: (as stated above) no crane access, there is a nearby 'safe' tree, the hazard tree must go ... can a Bail Out Kit make those jobs a little bit safer?
HAZARD TREE PREP: work only from the 'safe-side' of the hazard; when necessary rig pull & hold lines to assure hazard will fall away from the escape tree, that is, create a 'safe-side' of the hazard.
ESCAPE TREE(S) PREP: establish a 'safe-swing' location - remember an panic-escape will likely be uncontrolled; remove all obstacles; if necessary, rig a floating-false-crotch between two trees; practice a swing or two to verify the plan is safe.
WORK: avoid shocks to the hazard; position so the escape route is always clear; avoid getting any gear caught in the hazard.
KNOW WHEN TO QUIT!!! as Wouter says; "live a day longer."

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious...and interested!
I'd like to work on defining some 'best practices' with you.
Hit me up offline if you wanna chat about it. ...

[/ QUOTE ]
I welcome everyone's help "on defining some 'best practices'".

[ QUOTE ]
Stay safe,
Yours in Trees,
Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Mark & everyone for help with developing this concept! I'm hoping it will extend the number of marginal trees that can be worked safely.

treestyler · May 21, 2011

Re: BAIL OUT KIT - for work in a hazard tree *DELETED*

Thanx for spelling out that it's not life support !

1 ) the safe tree is close to the one that isn't good for climbing, then you don't need a bail out kit imo. There's allways an angle where you can work from out without having to use the bail out lanyard kit.

2) the safe tree is further away, you need the bail out kit to stay close to the hazard tree and will probably get injured, or worse if you are to use the panic hook by swinging far back.

another thing to keep in mind is that when it goes wrong it will happen really fast and your actions will probably be to late to inmediatly open the panic hook....your climbing system will get the full load......

I would prefer a loose set VT knot that slips easily under some extra load and a lanyard with no stopper knto at the end. It will just give you more safety and less dodgy materials. This makes more logic to me and keeps you working with the proper gear, alltough because off the bigger risk issue you just set your VT a wrap or more less.

Try this on the kitchen table and you'll find out this works great and gives you a smoother ride back to the main safe tree as long as you keep enough line in your lanyard system.

There are some other devices that will slip under a certain load, they also work great for these kind off setups.

This is just another way to look at it, I like your way of thinking and trying to improve safety features on difficult removals

but try to improve it with the proper gear and go on from there ;-)

climb safe
wouter

markprz · May 21, 2011

Re: BAIL OUT KIT - for work in a hazard tree *DELETED*

Jack,
I PM'd you my contact information...If you wanna work on defining how this thing works and how to test it.

I deleted my post because I'm confused about how I feel regarding this topic.... I think I wrote too soon...
So, I took it down to give it more thought.

I'm on the fence regarding whether or not this should be used.
A decision one way or the other can only be made after thoroughly testing and understanding what is involved and how it performs.....and how the subject performs too!

The marginal situational quality of the intended use of this technique makes me squeamish.... to talk about it. Until I understand it.
I know that I've been in situations that you're planning for here.... and I'm still trying to sort out whether I was lucky, competent or foolish... and what I will do in the future.... I was in a Maple just the other day.. as I approached my TIP, I realized that there was a woodpecker hole as big as my head on the reverse side.... completely hollowed out.... I moved to another leader.

I wonder statistically speaking.... how often there is another viable option that does not place human life on a rotted stem? I believe that cost is not an obstacle.

Something in this thread gives me pause... maybe it's because as I mature as a climber, my intuition guides me more of the time.... Things I feel 'good' about today... I never would have attempted a while ago..... But does that mean I'm a better climber and judge of safety? Or does that mean that I've become complacent or numb to situations that I should be more careful of....because I've had successes in the past....? Probably if I'm honest.. a little of both.

I understand your desire to help people work more safely in marginal trees.... but are we serving climbers the best we can by proposing to put them in a 'bail-out' situation?

I'll need to carefully consider the balance between putting myself in a 'bail-out' situation, and creating another safer, possibly more costly solution....

Great thread by the way!

My very best regards,
Yours in Trees,
Mark

SingleJack · May 21, 2011

Again, Wouter, great points and I do agree ...
I did post in the OP:
[ QUOTE ]
In addition the use of a hitch on a single-eye sling could allow the hitch to pull off the end of the sling in extreme load emergencies.

[/ QUOTE ]
Also, my last post detailed some thoughts on how to design and test the escape swing so it's as safe as possible whether it's from a panic snap or a "VT knot that slips easily". I think they are both a little "dodgy" but so is working in a hazard tree. It hasn't been said so far, but it should be:

Working in a hazard tree is very advanced work, NOT beginner, trainee, or trivial work and should be avoided whenever possible no matter what the experience level.

SingleJack · May 21, 2011

[ QUOTE ]
...
I understand your desire to help people work more safely in marginal trees.... but are we serving climbers the best we can by proposing to put them in a 'bail-out' situation?

I'll need to carefully consider the balance between putting myself in a 'bail-out' situation, and creating another safer, possibly more costly solution....

Great thread by the way!

My very best regards,
Yours in Trees,
Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, Mark, another good post! I share your "squeamish" feelings about needing a 'bail-out'. However, I'm looking at this from a different viewpoint. I AM NOT "proposing to put them {anyone} in a 'bail-out' situation."

I've been in potential 'bail-out' situations WITHOUT A 'BAIL-OUT' and I did not like it. Apparently, you have too. I know others have. There's always talk of "just cut-away." But, really, that's not a safe 'bail-out' plan. I've recently read of a death because a climber could not "cut-away" in time. As I mentioned in the OP:
[ QUOTE ]
I hate the idea of whipping out a knife or saw to cut my lanyard.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, my goal is to have the safest 'bail-out' I can have in my tool kit if I NEED IT.

RopeShield · May 22, 2011

Sounds like a viable solution to a situation we encounter.
I think being personally rigged into the tree should be avoided for the cut all together.
I also see this as a personal choice.
What will be your most confident choice/tool/technique?
Be prepared.
Thanks for posting.

Viking · May 22, 2011

Brilliant ideas here. Only problem I can smell is that accidents and "oops" moments seem to happen faster than the speed of light. And everyone knows what Einstein said about all that. For a climber to have entered a state of "panic" and hit the panic hardware, chances are yer already in hotwatta. Just my pea brain going through a WCS.

surfarmer1 · May 22, 2011

First I would not consider the single rope with a friction hitch the best choice of a work positioning lanyard because as you lean back and such it causes a pull down from the point of the cinch around the spar.. a conventional work positioning lanyard would be better with a break away lanyard (chain saw lanyard breaks at 200 lbs).the conventional lanyard does not pull the spar like a srt tip does...

if the tree is going to fail why would you risk injury and climb it..and if you do not know how to do the job safely call someone to help you learn the correct technique.

Tom Dunlap · May 22, 2011

I've brought this solution up a few times. A friend suggested using PLASTIC shower curtain rings at the harness attachment point.

Of course...attaching to a potential failure is a last resort. Anyone who has been around treework for some time will come across a scenario like this. There are times in life when making the best worst decision is the only possibility. The more solutions that are available the safer the job will be.

caleb · May 22, 2011

I think break away connections are a perfectly viable idea under certain, less than ideal, circumstances. I became a believer after I had a had white pine top fail below me. I had a good TIP in a tree next to me, knew the tree was not safe to climb by itself, but it failed at a woodpecker hole below where I swung over to it. Something I didn't inspect closely enough or do a pull test. My fault, and lesson learned. Luckily I walked away with just bruises but it was heavy enough to slightly bend one of the leg buckles on my saddle.

My experience with several of the methods mentioned. I had taken the stopper out of my lanyard and I had the "cut the lanyard" idea in the back of my mind. I did have to cut the lanyard, but only after everything came to a stop. I was not fast enough to pull the knot and once it got loaded it was, of course, impossible. You will not be fast enough, in my opinion, to do either one. Well, maybe "YOU" may be, but I was not. I think that pulling a quick release will play out in much the same manner. Anything that involves quick thinking and reflexes should be avoided, unless you are a ninja...

Later while removing a partially uprooted hickory that was much bigger and involved forces I KNEW I didn't want on my saddle, I went to a break away. I had set up a tyro between two trees as close over the work area as I could, but it was still far enough away that I needed a positioning lanyard to work. Also there was no crane access, which have been the more comfortable way to do it.
Removing possible hazards in the "swing area" is very good advice. We took the time to do that and it payed off because I slipped off part way up just before I threw the lanyard around. Went for a big swing, but everything worked as it should.

For the actual break away I just used the toy biner that I usually keep my hand saw on or a cable tie. I took a variety of cable tie sizes home and experimented by hanging a spectra sling and biner over a low branch and then the cable tie and then a footloop. I stepped up in the foot loop and bounced up through the sizes until I got to the first one I couldn't break by bouncing. A lot like aid climbing

I'm not sure when the toy biner would break though I've been meaning to break it to see. Of course the failure values for toy biners or cable ties, even if they are the same sizes, would probably vary quite a bit across the board I would imagine. The important thing I think is that it allows you to position and WILL break with a load slightly higher that anything you might encounter with casual climbing.

Moral of this (long) story is that break away connections have made me feel safer on several occassions and full strength attachments whose release relied on some quick action on my part got me injured, fortunately only slightly.
Just my $0.02

Tom Dunlap · May 22, 2011

If amy sort of break away is used its imperative that the parts that start flying around don't hit the climber.

Adding a 'safety' that becomes a hazard is a bit reckless.