attorney threatens to sue me

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I stick to my price..

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Great. I don't have a problem with that.
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you ask if I ever give back?

I dont ever ever change my bid up or down.

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I was talking about giving back if you over bid. (I wasn't talking about your personal life outside of work) And now you answered that...

I'll try to stay on track better next time Wade.

I'll try to make more sense next time too.

Oh, and I'll try to take a business loss the next time I find unexpected stuff in the trees.
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[...]Otherwise you could under bid every job just to rise the price later.

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Sure you could but you wouldn't be in business very long. Most of us work on repeat business; you won't get it if you tack onto an invoice every time. It's something you do when appropriate to keep from losing your shirt, not something you do to increase your profit margin.

It's fantasy to think things aren't absolute. Nobody is THAT good at estimating... you're doing it from the ground. The customer shouldn't have to take a bath and neither should the arborist.

I've never had to tack on for a takedown because they're easy to estimate, but on big pruning jobs, yeah, I've asked for an overage... and the customer was completely cool with it.
 
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Lawyers do not have to give firm quotes on most of their services; why should we be held to an inaccurate estimate?

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Because they are in a different industry and there's a different standard for that one. Hey, I'd love to be able to charge by the 0.1 hour increment and never have to estimate the job ahead of time.
 
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I think if you give a price you stick to it no matter what . Thats your job? You should know what your looking at.

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True.

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Otherwise you could under bid every job just to rise the price later.

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That's definitely the business strategy that some companies use. Those people never get repeat customers and are total axeholes IMO.

I was once told by an Ironworker Superintendant that the mark of a good 'super is being able to find the extras. They bid the job for what's detailed on the drawings (by the engineer), then make the good money on the extras. They find the undeniable extras that the owner can't in good conscience turn down. They're mostly "while we've got the equipment and personnel here" types of things. It's irritating to the owner, but if the 'super is good, the owner really can't say "no", because it's still more economical to do it now.
 
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I neglected to put into writing the included bark formation on a remaining limb and it fell the day after we did the previously fallen limb.

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Oops.

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I didn't tell his wife about the dangerous limb/Pecan tree.

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Oops.

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I remember telling his wife about the included bark limb formation.

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Contradiction? Oops.

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In making the initial appointment, his wife told my wife she wanted to keep the 75 yr old tree. They just wanted the broken limb removed and were all concerned about the fence it had hit when it fell. She later asked me if the tree would survive and I thought she was speaking of the wound from the storm damaged limb falling. He told me that all the other bidders had said the same thing, that the tree would survive.

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Irrelevant.

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He told me he would sue me because I was the last one to touch the tree.

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You'd not necessarily be responsible because you were the last one to "touch" it, but because you were a professional, qualified to notice a hazardous defect.

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I wasn't taking down that 75 year old monster for free. He ask how much I told him and he told me how much he wanted to pay.

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Sounds like wrestling with a pig ...

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My wife wants to write the State Bar and complain against this client because the request was to remove one limb.

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You should complain to the bar because of the coercion, but not on the basis of "I just did what he asked for." The client is not qualified to identify hazards - you are. You should have made a written advisement of the hazards and should have a standard disclaimer for your liability (hold harmless?) if the client chooses not to heed your advise. Be sure to hire an attorney to get the wording right. Know any?
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Lawyers do not have to give firm quotes on most of their services; why should we be held to an inaccurate estimate?

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Because they are in a different industry and there's a different standard for that one. Hey, I'd love to be able to charge by the 0.1 hour increment and never have to estimate the job ahead of time.

[/ QUOTE ]Why should the standard be different?

Most of my work is by the hour without a bid, or by the hour with a range ballparked. If they don't trust me I'll go work for someone else.

O and re extras--the worst underbid i ever did was a long time ago, on a big federal contact. The only way I could keep my shirt was to add on a removal charge for little seedlings. Fortunately the overseer took pity on me. Big learning experience.
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Lawyers do not have to give firm quotes on most of their services; why should we be held to an inaccurate estimate?

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Because they are in a different industry and there's a different standard for that one. Hey, I'd love to be able to charge by the 0.1 hour increment and never have to estimate the job ahead of time.

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Why should the standard be different?

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Irrelevant question - it <u>is</u> different. It does not matter whether you think it's fair or whatever. If you disagree with it being different, take up your beef with all of the free market. They set the rules. Obviously, the market values attorneys more than arborists. Otherwise, you'd be charging $500/hr by the 1/10th hour! I don't particularly care for attorneys either, but society has bred them for better or worse.

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Most of my work is by the hour without a bid, or by the hour with a range ballparked. If they don't trust me I'll go work for someone else.

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This is the beauty of the free market. I love it!
 
Thanks guys for all your constructive advise. By the way... I'm not crying
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but desired conversation and discussion. Hence the name...Tree Talk &gt;&gt; General Discussion.. my lesson has been well learned. Experience gained and bragging rights earned, 75 yr old monster in a tight back yard with a deck and fountain. Labor (groundies) paid. I now carry a broke pick ax handle to put a handle on the situation.
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JOKING DON"T SUE ME!!
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I guess after the first time it'll be easier. My life as a tree business owner is full of, how can I put this?, frills, thrills and adventure.
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hang loose dudes and dudettes.
 
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I dont uderstand? What was unexpected.

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Basically, I said there was a lot more dead wood in the trees than I could see from the ground.--That was unexpected.

Yeah, I made a mistake with my estimate. So, I clarified it with the customer half way through. He agreed to pay more.

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My point was just that if you or I make a mistake we should stick to the bid. Thats why they call you. Not a fly buy night tree cuter.I stick to my price..

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Your not being fly by night... and, your also not superman, unless you can see all the defects in a tree canopy from the ground. Now if you climbed the tree prior to giving the estimate, then yes, you made an error. Do you climb each tree before you give a quote?

Let me get this straight: If you go and do a quote to do general structural prune of a tree, but you then encounter that a main spar in the upper canopy is splitting at the crotch and HAS to be removed, you will do this for your price quoted, even with the extra work taking an additional 8-12 (or more) man hours?

I always tell people when working on bigger trees that I cannot see all possible problems unless I climb the tree... Most understand this and actually welcome the idea. It just makes sense, and I believe it is a very professional way to deal with it.
 
and YES I did give $50.00 off because I over bid WAY OVER. I remembered this thread and how it's gone off topic at times and the look on the client's face when we were through hours early. Didn't hurt a bit.yeah yeah I could have come down more but the client was happy.

I will just have to get sued next time an ambulance chasing attorney threatens me. I'm buying a voice activated digital recorder.

now a contractor is getting audited by the workman's comp people and asked If I could back date a waiver that his WC didn't cover me. That I was responsible for my own insurance. GREAT what next?????
 
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It's all a reminder to spend a little more thought when looking at a bid or assuming how easy or difficult the work's going to be.

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Great point oakwilt, it is so vital to be thorough and complete when making a quotation/bid for work, especially when dealing with larger trees which could cause severe injury to people or structural damage to property.
 
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Your not being fly by night... and, your also not superman, unless you can see all the defects in a tree canopy from the ground. Now if you climbed the tree prior to giving the estimate, then yes, you made an error. Do you climb each tree before you give a quote?

Let me get this straight: If you go and do a quote to do general structural prune of a tree, but you then encounter that a main spar in the upper canopy is splitting at the crotch and HAS to be removed, you will do this for your price quoted, even with the extra work taking an additional 8-12 (or more) man hours?

I always tell people when working on bigger trees that I cannot see all possible problems unless I climb the tree... Most understand this and actually welcome the idea. It just makes sense, and I believe it is a very professional way to deal with it.

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I think this example is pushing the limits of comparing apples to apples; I think the original example was agreeing to deadwood a tree, and then realizing there was more wood than originally thought.

Now to bring up a question mentioned earlier: What do you do when the customer says "No" to the new charges? How do you arrive at a fair price for the work you have done already? The first scenario that comes to mind is the customer saying they would have went with another company if they knew the estimate/quote wasn't going to be honored.

Many canned quote forms have a block for payment terms, and I always enter "Due upon completion". I have often thought about better wording since I guess it could be possible for the customer to keep saying things aren't done to postpone payment, but that hasn't happend yet.
 
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Do you climb each tree before you give a quote?

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No. Never. If time were not an issue for the estimate process, it would be a good idea.

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Exactly my point... then unless you do so, tell your client that there may be unseen findings that require extra work.

Unless they prefer to have you climb the tree first to give a quote, which will then be a charged estimate/consult/inspection. It would certainly be a more accurate way to bid a large, thick tree...
 
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