I am going to purchase a spliced rope (the 11mm family)and would like to attach climb line and stiched spliced I to I cordage to a single HMS carabiner to streamline my connection. I was cautioned against this practice with my current setup (anchor hitch) due to the potential of loading the carabiner improperly. Any thoughts as to the safety of this configuration, anyone use this method? Thank you for any thoughts, experiences, or comments.
Attaching soley to an HMS carabiner
- Thread starter Trees_Please
- Start date
Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
i think i know what you are talking about but give us a pic
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
I avoid HMS biners at all cost. Nose loading them can be hazardous. Try an oval biner instead.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
[ QUOTE ]
I avoid HMS biners at all cost. Nose loading them can be hazardous. Try an oval biner instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, they can fail waaay lower than rated strength when nose loaded... as low as 10% of rated strength. Even with an HMS, I don't think you'll be able to fit the prussic eyes, pulley and anchor hitch.
I avoid HMS biners at all cost. Nose loading them can be hazardous. Try an oval biner instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, they can fail waaay lower than rated strength when nose loaded... as low as 10% of rated strength. Even with an HMS, I don't think you'll be able to fit the prussic eyes, pulley and anchor hitch.
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
[quot] because if Norm Hall says he would not do it that probably means I should avoid it as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Truer words were never spoken
Scotty
[/ QUOTE ]
Truer words were never spoken
Scotty
there is a guy from Illinois that climbs on a set up similar to that only he uses a
fixe (i think) and ties one end to the becket and the other to the hms and loads the splice in between the plates on the fixe. pretty streamlined with no potential for nose loading in my humble opinion. he climbed in the warren wilson comp. does anyone know his name? he was a cool cat.
fixe (i think) and ties one end to the becket and the other to the hms and loads the splice in between the plates on the fixe. pretty streamlined with no potential for nose loading in my humble opinion. he climbed in the warren wilson comp. does anyone know his name? he was a cool cat.
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Yeah, a Petzl Fixe pulley can accommodate that kind of setup, if you have a spliced eye on your rope.
SZ
SZ
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
[ QUOTE ]
I avoid HMS biners at all cost. Nose loading them can be hazardous.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is an overly harsh statement, especially for tree climbers. Most of the carabiners we use don't have the notch needed to nose-hook something. With rare exception, the things we clip to in tree climbing are rarely even small enough to fit into the notch on a carabiner even if it DID have a notch.
Keep in mind that I NEVER buy carabiners with the notch because I hate when they get snagged on things. So I'm coming at this from a skewed world where the notch, in a sense, doesn't even exist.
But to say, "avoid HMS at all costs" I think is taking it too far. It would be better to say, "avoid using carabiners with notches. If you do use them, take special care when clipping to anything that may be small enough to fit in the notch."
The notch is the enemy, not the HMS biner.
love
nick
ps- my opinion on the initial question to put the hitch and spliced line on the same biner is "go ahead." I bet you'll never break it. I also bet that you'll find it annoying enough to constantly thread and unthread the carabiner every time you reset your rope and you'll eventually give the spliced end its own carabiner again.
I also bet that an HMS carabiner tested while being loaded with splice, pulley and 2 hitches WOULD break "lower" than a straight pull test...but not low enough to be of concern.
Anyone have a breaking bed we can use to test it?
I avoid HMS biners at all cost. Nose loading them can be hazardous.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is an overly harsh statement, especially for tree climbers. Most of the carabiners we use don't have the notch needed to nose-hook something. With rare exception, the things we clip to in tree climbing are rarely even small enough to fit into the notch on a carabiner even if it DID have a notch.
Keep in mind that I NEVER buy carabiners with the notch because I hate when they get snagged on things. So I'm coming at this from a skewed world where the notch, in a sense, doesn't even exist.
But to say, "avoid HMS at all costs" I think is taking it too far. It would be better to say, "avoid using carabiners with notches. If you do use them, take special care when clipping to anything that may be small enough to fit in the notch."
The notch is the enemy, not the HMS biner.
love
nick
ps- my opinion on the initial question to put the hitch and spliced line on the same biner is "go ahead." I bet you'll never break it. I also bet that you'll find it annoying enough to constantly thread and unthread the carabiner every time you reset your rope and you'll eventually give the spliced end its own carabiner again.
I also bet that an HMS carabiner tested while being loaded with splice, pulley and 2 hitches WOULD break "lower" than a straight pull test...but not low enough to be of concern.
Anyone have a breaking bed we can use to test it?
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Just found this:
The surest way to prevent nose-hooking is to use carabiners that feature a keylock closure. Picture a ball-and-socket joint with the ball on the gate and the socket on the nose. Because these biners have no notch on the nose that can snag bolt hangers, slings or wires, they virtually eliminate the risk of nose-hooking.
In rock and ice magazine here: http://www.rockandice.com/inthemag.php?id=40&type=accidents
The surest way to prevent nose-hooking is to use carabiners that feature a keylock closure. Picture a ball-and-socket joint with the ball on the gate and the socket on the nose. Because these biners have no notch on the nose that can snag bolt hangers, slings or wires, they virtually eliminate the risk of nose-hooking.
In rock and ice magazine here: http://www.rockandice.com/inthemag.php?id=40&type=accidents
- Location
- Lexington, KY- USA
The Hitchclimber is the answer.
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
By nose loading, I was referring to actually loading the nose of the krab. Loading the nose is not recommended on an HMS krab. These krab's were designed for the 'Munter hitch'. Although these are extremely popular in tree care, it is important that arborists are aware of the limitations.
Better alternatives are available.
Better alternatives are available.
- Location
- Centralia, Illinois
Norm if he wanted to run his climbing Hitch like that would you recomend using a steel HMS krab.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
My bad on the nose loading thing, I was referring to nose hooking as Nick mentioned, it's an open gate situation.
TP,
Would it still accomplish your goal to use two biners and simply hook them together when you want to detach and move the whole rig? That's how I generally do it (although I'm just now trying a hitch climber). It still allows you to easily slip off the eye splice and re-thread your false crotch. It's not quite as quick but it's still only a couple of extra seconds.
TP,
Would it still accomplish your goal to use two biners and simply hook them together when you want to detach and move the whole rig? That's how I generally do it (although I'm just now trying a hitch climber). It still allows you to easily slip off the eye splice and re-thread your false crotch. It's not quite as quick but it's still only a couple of extra seconds.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
I've been using the Hitchclimber since I traded one from tophopper (i think it was from him) a year or two ago. I love it!
My guess is if we loaded a petzl carabiner with the 3 eyes like we're talking about in this thread, it'd break at a never-would-happen-while-tree-climbing load. Just a hunch, though.
It seems logical that switching to steel would greatly minimize the effects of awkward loading.
love
nick
My guess is if we loaded a petzl carabiner with the 3 eyes like we're talking about in this thread, it'd break at a never-would-happen-while-tree-climbing load. Just a hunch, though.
It seems logical that switching to steel would greatly minimize the effects of awkward loading.
love
nick
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Brendon get yourself a splice, man!!!
- Location
- Storm Cleanup Tassie Au
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