Anybody bother with Dept Licensing and illegal co.

southsoundtree

southsoundtree

Been here much more than a while
Location
Olympia, WA
It irks me that more and more illegal "companies" are starting in my area due to the economy.

Anybody ever try to get them shut down or fined/ forced into compliance? Any luck?
 
We caught the LOCAL "handyman" pruning (poorly= flush cuts OR stubs) smack dab in the MIDDLE of our Provincial Elm pruning ban. Called the Provincial Director of the DED program, he never returned our call.

The next DIY was caught a week later, again, an elm removal (non-hazardous), called in again, tree trunk and limbs are STILL sitting there.

I DON'T want to appear to be whining, BUT our Elm pruning Regulations seems to be thwarting DED. We also have a NEW critter in town, BEBB (Banded Elm Bark Beetle). This kind of illegal activity tends to initiate the spread of terrible vectors. About 40% of my work is pruning, IF the trend of illegal activity keeps up, I will only have to worry about doing removals. I can live with that, BUT there will be a whole lot less trees around to abate the wind, and give shade!

We have laws and regulations up the wazoo, and Little-to-no enforcement. Boy am I glad I have another job!

OH, I forgot to mention the "handyman" has been tellin' people he works for a lot less than we do...... "'CAUSE HE DOESN"T NEED TO CARRY INSURANCE". How do you compete with that?
 
If people who own trees and property want to save money by using someone who is uninsured I am happy for them and you should be too; it's their life and property. I often take chances in life; either tree work or unrelated to trees. I have insurance (just so you don't hate me also) but I only have it because my customers demand it. I have paid enough insurance in my life to buy any of our clients a brand new house. Buying insurance is a gamble; one puts down
$X,XXX(X?).00 that they will need it each year; translated: I think I'm going to drop a tree on something I shouldn't; I think my rope will fail; I think I will damage something. The insurance industry is raking in trillions on our fear. I worked for years without insurance and as far as the tree license goes; My wife who only hands stuff up and carries the lunch (between more important stuff like filing her nails) has one(a license)-I don't...that's how easy they are to get...
the real question is always the same; Does the person do good work or not? the question is not do they have permission from washington to do the work. Dr.Can you cure my illness or not? Not are you licensed to work on me. Can you fix my pipe or not? not are you licensed to work on pipes.

The truth
 
No hating here Giantslayer. There are a lot of pieces that make up at tree care operation. The example of INSURANCE is only one small piece of the tree care company puzzle. When you mentioned "Does the person do good work or not?", I completely agree.

Not all tree care companies are created equally. IF I was hiring a company, what would I be looking for? Price, is definitely a consideration. BUT we have to compare apples to apples. Why is one companies price so different from another's. IMO I would want to higher a company for its ability to do the job safely (for them and my property). I would want the job to be compliant with the laws (City, County, State, and Federal). If either one of these things goes wrong, you know who gets the bill in the end!

Mr. Handyman doesn't have all the stuff we have, that is his choice. He may price his jobs any way he wants, it is a free country! BUT there are things that MUST happen in order to be a For-Hire tree care company. Here, it is NOT mandatory to have insurance (except WC for employees) or training. If something goes wrong (say a limb smashes the tree owners house, OR worse, the Neighbors) and the arborist is uninsured, the ramifications go to the tree owner. Then there is the business licence issue.......

We have had issues in the past of Utility Pruning Co. moonlighting on the SIDE! The culprits have told us, "well we just do enough for beer money". Well these guys are stealing from their employer (equipment, fuel), they are not covered by Company insurance, and don't have a business license, and they are working for CASH (not paying taxes). In other words they have their hand in MY pocket, not exactly ethical either, is it?

Perhaps this is why tree care is NOT considered a real trade. I would like the industry to florish, lord knows there are a lot of trees here that need work! I feel that there MUST be a bare set of standards for tree care work. NO exceptions! There must also be concequences for NOT abiding to basic business practices, if, for nothing else but to protect the industry.
 
NC has no provision for licensing arborists or tree care, there is no insurance requirement, WC or otherwise.

So, anybody can advertise or go door to door selling tree work... and they do, bigtime.

You could put me in that category because I don't own any heavy equipment and work out of a car most of the time. I do carry liability but not WC since I have no employees. I don't bid big jobs and I sub all my material handling and cleanup... but I've never had a complaint because I do every job like it was the most important one I'll ever do. 80% of my business is repeat or referral by existing customers... I rarely even have to compete on bids.

So, I'm not the best guy to ask but since you did... no, I've never pursued lowballers or hacks. They aren't going to go away no matter what you do, especially in a down economy. Your only real option is to play your competitive advantages, whatever they may be. For me, it's quality of work, customer communication and a genuine love of trees and tree care. I target customers who appreciate those things and pretty much ignore the ones looking for the lowest price. I'm lucky in that there are lots of those people around here.

As for violating regulations about things like pruning after September to prevent DED, I might just report that to whatever organization that governs it... but first I would talk directly to the offender, explain the reasoning and warn them that I will act if they don't.

Certifications and licensing would be great if industry lobbyists didn't control it, but these days, it's just a racket designed to give unfair advantage to certain darlings of the industry who have the financial clout to get what they want. The ISA is actually not so bad in that respect.

Legitimizing tree care will take time but it's on it's way. What WE can do is behave like professionals and leave our customers feeling like they received good value for their money. I don't think busting the chops of some unemployed guys trying to stay alive is much of a solution.
 
comparing a Dr. with no degree or certifications, to a business owner without a business license is a bit absurd!

I know what your saying GS, but thse regulations are in place to protect the consumer. you say that insurance is a self admittal to something that will go wrong in the future. Insurance is there for when accidents happen. they are called accidents for a reason, and not on purposes.

In the US if a homeowner hires an uninsured contractor, and that contractor causes damage or one of his workers is injured, the homeowner is held responsible. now if this was put to every homeowner at the time of the bid and the HO signed something saying they understood that would be great! but that's not how it works, and unfortunately fly by night "companies" take advantage of this fact.
 
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In the US if a homeowner hires an uninsured contractor, and that contractor causes damage or one of his workers is injured, the homeowner is held responsible.

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I think you should be saying 'could be held responsible'. The homeowner would only be held responsible after the assets of the contractor were exhusted is my understanding. In Georgia WC is only required if a company has over three employees........the employer is responsible for medical bills....not the homeowner. That's my undertanding anyway.
 
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comparing a Dr. with no degree or certifications, to a business owner without a business license is a bit absurd!


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not so; there are healers out there that save lives of people who doc's have given up on; dr's are like us; they don't know everything but they do have boat payments to make...



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I know what your saying GS, but thse regulations are in place to protect the consumer.



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lets let the consumer decide what they may want; protection or low price.


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you say that insurance is a self admittal to something that will go wrong in the future. Insurance is there for when accidents happen. they are called accidents for a reason, and not on purposes.


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accidents don't just happen; they are caused. insurance is as is gambling; a percentage of chance. the odds are always better in alantic city; the insurance co. sees to it; it's how they stay in business; by taking the better odds and giving us the poorer ones.



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In the US if a homeowner hires an uninsured contractor, and that contractor causes damage or one of his workers is injured, the homeowner is held responsible.



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thats his problem; and he knows it.


there is a broad span of work and risk; the lawn mower does much tree work just because he's there and this here limb needs to be cut and he can do it-as well as you can. He knows his limit and so does the home owner. At least the ones I meet know his limits or I wouldn't be meeting them and the ones I meet know enough to ask for insurance when they see the risk.

Let Freedom Ring and risk comes with it. you guys seem to want govt to control everything...in your favor.

I lose a lot of jobs each year to lower bids but I'm glad I live in a world where I can compete as they all do and I get my share; my stomach is full each evening as I lay my weary head down and I think yours are also.
 
Your right GS, the homeowner should know all of the risks involved with using uninsured/licensed contractors before calling any contractor. And the ones who arent insured and claim to be should make the HO aware of their tactics.

Youre also right that accidents are preventable, but they happen more often with small fly by nights who dont have insurance/licensing. This has been proven time and time again.

Why not carry the proper insurances?
 
I carry insurance to protect my business and assets. Costly lawsuits and litigation against your company can arise from things much smaller than a major accident. If you've got nothing to lose, save your money, don't buy insurance. Otherwise it's money well spent.
 
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I'm still waiting to hear what makes these companies "illegal"

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Not paying taxes on the work they do for one. That's one way a low baller can make up the differance on his low price.

But that's about all I can come up with John.

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Agreed. But wouldn't making that assumption be pure speculation?

I think the original poster is more "irked" about new companies starting up in "HIS" area, and assuming (or hoping) they are illegal.

Newsflash people. Theres enough work for everyone, even the hacks.
 
I'm really not all that threatened by the low baller because I rarely compete against him. I'm doing more and more commercial work and there's no way they will bring an uninsured treeguy in, the risk is way to high.

I've always had the belief that knucklehead treeguys will work for knucklehead home owners. A match made in heaven as far as I'm concerned, and I have no problem with that.
 
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Agreed. But wouldn't making that assumption be pure speculation?







I think cashing out on a job for that guy would be just as common as driving 60 mph in a 55 zone.
 
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Why not carry the proper insurances?

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But because it costs money; the idea as far as I know is to keep ones money and to even increase it. No?

it's a mute point because the customer dictates, way to often, that we have it.



Insurance is great when it's needed but the insurance industry survives because the chances are it won't be needed; it truly is gambling. it is gambling with very serious stakes; life health and expensive property are on the table as the wheel is spinning spinning. But it's still gambling with poor odds for the policy holder; they see to that.

good night
 
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OH, I forgot to mention the "handyman" has been tellin' people he works for a lot less than we do...... "'CAUSE HE DOESN"T NEED TO CARRY INSURANCE". How do you compete with that?

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You can't; but really, if that's the kind of client they are, I don't want them as a customer anyways.

I'm not broke, and (as some here could attest.. =P) I sure ain't starvin'.
 
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