Any suggestions to help train new climbers?

wct4life

wct4life

Location
Columbus Ohio
A breif history on myself... I've been in the industry for about a year now and am a quick study. Within that time, i went from working with expierenced crews to running them. Now with the season beginning, we have new guys who want to climb. Other than giving them some books to read and having watch videos, I'd like any suggestions on training them in the field.

This is how i've gone about it so far. I give them the "low down" on the tree they're about to climb. Explain knots, footlock, and TIP's. Then send them up a small tree w/ a handsaw and watch for a little while.

What bothers me is what can happen when I'm not looking. (I had to stop a guy from cutting through his lanyard on a pine removal while "chunking" logs off and he had already been climbing almost as long as me) I'd say my biggest complaint is that you can't teach common sense or good judgement.

God knows that i don't want any of my ppl posted on the "awakenings" thread. So, any thoughts are appreciated
 
It's good to have you asking questions here instead of guessing.

If you have only a year of experience and you're teaching, please don't take offense, but your depth of knowledge is probably too shallow. From what you wrote, you're concerned and involved. That counts for a lot. The fellow I took rock and ice climbing lessons from taught college classes and had an education background too. Larry told me that, as a rule of thumb, if everything is perfect, students will only be able to learn and put into practice about 10% of what is taught. So, if the teacher is assumed to know 100% of all the knowledge, the students will only "get" 10%. Then, this is where you come into the scheme, you take your 10%, which becomes the 100% since you're teaching and go on to teach. Your students will only "get" 1% of what they need. The soup gets a little thin.

All of this is what you seem to realize anyway.

Every climber should own, and read, The Tree Climbers Companion. Jeff has written Skill Performance Sheets in the back. This will set a good foundation. The ISA has some good programs. So does TCIA. The Tailgate Safety Program is a good place to start.

Stay active here. You'll be able to tap into some good, skilled arbos.
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I'd say my biggest complaint is that you can't teach common sense or good judgement.


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you hit the nail on the head with that one. in my opinion, you'll be able to tell the first time someones up a tree if they're going to be any good or not. The skill is in picking out who to waste time teaching and who not to
 
the two guys who initially trained me how to climb would always climb the tree with me. this is an approach i adopted when i am training others. you cannot effectively train a brand new climber if you stand on the ground and yell up to them. work the tree together. then you dont worry about having your eyes off them.
i also think it is good to train new climber on saw use from a bucket and the ground. this is a much safer environment where the can get used to the handling of these tools before being on rope where an unchecked motion can easily go through a climbing line or a lanyard.
 
I was brought up in an environment where a person wasn't even considered for climber training unless and until he was competent and efficient on the ground. If a person can't keep up with figuring out how to work the ground, he has no business in a tree. Because I was a groundman first, I try to work a tree in a way that is easier for the ground crew as well as myself. I don't leave 12" stubs to get hung in the chipper, I drop limbs so the butt is facing the chipper, I pace the job so the groundman can work fast without getting buried. I don't drop limbs on my groundman's head. When I come down I help rake or chip or cut logs or whatever needs doing.

By the time a person gets good at groundwork, he won't need much training to be a climber. He will already know pretty much what needs to be done and will only need practice. Like my first mentor told me constantly-
"Watch and learn, Brian. Watch and learn."
 
I can remember my first climbing experience on the job very vividly. I had climbed before through some courses but this was the first time I was climbing for a job. The first tree I was sent up was a red oak that was about 65-70 feet tall. I got all the way to my highest tie in point and was positioning myself to descend down to a large lateral limb about 12 feet below me. My foreman at the time was instructing me from the lowest limbs in the tree. I remember starting to push out from the tree with my legs in preparation for the descent and the next thing I knew I was laying on the large lateral that I was going to descend down to. I had fallen about twelve feet and luckily that large limb was there or I would have gone to the ground. My foreman quickly scrambled up the tree to me and checked out the situation. I felt fine but I think the adrenaline was really flowing. We inspected my blake's hitch and it was tied correctly. The only thing we could come up with was that ice had gotten into the hitch, it was sleeting out, or looking back I might not have tied, dressed, and set the knot properly. I finished climbing the tree but after that I freaked out and decided I was not going to climb anymore. I ripped up my leg pretty bad in the fall and I only stayed with that company for a couple more weeks as a groundman. It took me two years to get back into tree climbing, I purchased all my own equipment and started out climbing small trees. I read every book I could find about climbing and I slowly conquered my fear. My suggestion is that you start them out in small trees and refer them to any sources of information about climbing that you can. After reading up about climbing and practicing in small trees then you should be able to move them on to larger trees. I feel this type of training would have saved me a lot of heartache. I also like the idea of working the tree with them their first time, you will probably be able to correct a lot of potential problems right off the bat. Good luck. -Chris
 
rocky is correct that guys should start out on the ground..
and i think a big part of a good climber is how they take care of their groundmen.
 
Yeah, Rocky Sqrrl is right. You've got to be able to perform on the ground before you can get into the tree. And performing on the ground is not just cutting and chipping, its watching the climber and anticipating what his needs will be.

I'm a university professor and I do alot of teaching as you might imagine. Teach your guys to be groundmen first. Identify the tasks they need to be proficient with and train them in small steps. As they master these tasks, consider them as candidates for climbing.

In all my experience, the best students take the initiative and start to learn on their own. When they start asking questions, you can start listening. When they start demonstrating to you that they are learning on their own (asking about or referring to things they've read, seen, or done) that you haven't showed them--then those ppl are likely to be good cadidates.

My first tree--the boss said climb it. 30 ft Spruce that already had all the laterals taken off the first 20 ft. First tree, first time on spurs, first time with chainsaw off the ground. Got to the double stem at about 20ft, tied in and was ready to top it, but I couldn't get the 335 started. Very little leverage up in the tree you know. I was scared to death. Chose to come down. Boss just shook his head. I'd been clamoring about climbing for months.

2 wks later I got my second chance on a 40 ft spruce. Took it down without a hitch (no pun intended). I've never looked back, but a baptism by fire is no way to start out.

Good Luck.
BAB
 
WCT.

I disagree that you cant teach common sense and good judgment. I guess I would say , you cant (always) teach them. Just like they say you cant teach an ol dog new tricks, but you can if you give them enough doggy bones.

There are different levels of common sense and the same for having good judgment.

Common sense is just sometimes redirecting someones level of thinking so they comprehend what they dont understand or have never done before.What is comon sense and simplicity for one is not always for the other . Time will tell and sometimes not. If your a good judge of charactor you'll see it in them and they be your sleeper.

Many different leveles of good judgment as far as I'm concerned. How do you know that you have good judgemnt after one year in the business? maybe to a fella who has 3 monthes experience you do , but what about someone who has ten to twenty years experience? they may think your judgment is poor . I'm not saying other wise about you, I'm just making a point, so dont take that statement litterally. I just think that good judgment , is in fact a a big part of training in this business.I've taken some veterans in the business who had poor judgment according to me and my training and now after several years they are doing things they thought they would never do, all with pretty much good judgment.Fear factor and experience levels account for a big reason why poor judgment accusations are made.When the lesser is trained to the more experienced level, then they will realize that it wasn't such poor judgment .

Anyway WCT, I felt the same way at one time, but over the years and many hours of training, my thoughts have changed.Unfortunatly, in the production end of it you may not have the luxury of taking the time to find these things out with some people, but in my cituation I do .

Thanks
Greg
 
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