ANSI and Flammability

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A more pertinent question would be, are fires common in residential and suburban areas where trees are cabled?

Would a tree cabled with steel hardware withstand heat and flames capable of igniting a synthetic cabling system?

The bulk of the cabling I've performed has been on limbs overhanging structures.

jomoco
 
There are few populated areas of the world that I can think of where urban wildfires are an issue.

Next, if an urban wildfire gets going what's left behind? Ashes??? If so, steel or synthetic would be a moot point.

Over my career I've had to deal with a few trees that were close to house fires. If my memory serves me any cable wouldn't have helped the tree survive the fire...they were dead or so severely damaged the trees were removals. So again...so what difference?

What's wrong with synthetic cable? Fire survival...so...the steel cable survives and the tree doesn't???
 
What's wrong with synthetic cabling is that it can't withstand the heat and flames that both trees and traditional steel cabling can Tom.

Take a green limb, a steel cable and a synthetic cable. Apply equal flame to each for 5 seconds.

Which of the three materials will ignite and burn?

jomoco
 
I think it is not a concern but I can certainly imagine it will be useful excuse for those wanting to cut down more trees.

Cobra has been around for perhaps two decades. Is there a single documented case where a synthetic cable has burnt and caused damage?

A metallurgist might talk about flames damage metal structure.

Perhaps we should never cable because there might be a fire and as arborists we certainly do not want to be liable for a cable burning/damaged during a wildfire.
 
I love it. Cables rated for 4 tons, in structurally compromised trees over people and structures, that can't withstand 5 seconds of direct flame exposure?

What are fire depts for?

What would an insurance company prefer, flammable or non-flammable?

What are lightening protection systems for?

How common are lightening strikes?

Must a firefighter get brained by a split out branch before common sense is applied to this matter guys?

jomoco
 
Silly argument. If a fire is 2/3 up in the canopy, it's pretty much gone already. I think of cabling as an added means of support, not 100%. If a cable is supporting 100% of a compromised leader, branch, whatever, then there's already a problem before you add fire to the equation.
I did a fully torched, three leader pine a couple months ago. Absolutely wold have recommended a cable system. It would have burned up and not created an issue. There can be a million what-ifs, but logic prevails.
 
[ QUOTE ]
...
What are lightening protection systems for?
How common are lightening strikes?

[/ QUOTE ]

mmm this issue raised here tends to work against steel, as it has to be bonded and dynamic not. but not too big a big deal, as far as we know, steel does not actually "draw" strikes, but i have seen strikes jump from trees to metal objects--in both cases sparing the lower trunk from injury.
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Kinda reachin there...direct flame for 5 seconds, hmm...kinda random; when does that happen? jon are you so pro-steel (as i am 83% of the time)...where does this 5-second datum come from--midnight rambling, with a torch and stopwatch, "researching"?

it was a dumb poll sorry--the last 3 were variations on a theme.
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The possibility has to be so remote as to be insignificant in terms of risk management.

Flames melting/burning cables in a wildfire would indicate a fire too hot and flame-length too long for approach by firefighters. Perhaps a crown fire may occur but again this is unlikely to be fought at close range by people.

In an urban environment a tree collapse because of burnt cables is very remote. Cannot imagine that the risk even ranks in a list of hazards and possible hazards to be evaluated and mitigated while fighting fires.
 
I marvel at my peers in this industry's ability to ignore the fact that synthetic ropes are highly flammable, that many cabling systems are within easy reach of flames be it a brush fire or structural fire.

I disagree with each and every one of you that promote cabling trees with synthetics so much weaker than the trees they're supporting structurally.

I further predict that synthetic cabling advocates will lose in a court of law at the inevitable point when their cables fail in a fire that a steel cabling system could have withstood, and people or property are damaged.

Your logic is as faulty as the snake oil synthetic cabling systems you're advocating!

I'll be the arborist testifying against synthetic cabling installers and manufacturers in a court of law for the prosecution,

Good luck boys!

jomoco
 
"many cabling systems are within easy reach of flames...the inevitable point when their cables fail in a fire that a steel cabling system could have withstood"

Easy? inevitable? We know you live in fire country, but still, that scenario seems extreeeeemely unlikely.

"I'll be the arborist testifying against synthetic cabling..."

And you may be the witness who gets Dauberted out of there. For your testimony to be allowed, you'd have to demonstrate competence and objectivity. If the opposing attorney gets a whiff of your extreeeeemely biased views on this topic,you may have to fight your crusade in another venue.
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It's fun defending one's forum posts in court! Depending on the posts, that is...
 
This thread is silly. Obviously, jomoco is a major shareholder in the US steel industry and has his reasons for advocating for all steel. Lets get back to talking about blow torching trees.
 
You guys obviously have not had any firsthand experience battling any residential fires.

You also ignore the fact that all building codes are expressly written to deal practically with the issue of fire safety!

Why would our industry be allowed an exemption for integrating fire safety into our public and residential systems?

jomoco
 
Get your head out of?????

Building codes are not expressely written to deal pratically with the issue of fire safety. ABS and PVC pipe are highly flammable and the gases given off are deadly. Vinyl-sided house start to melt and then burn like a blow torch.

We need only look at the valleys above LA to realize that areas swept by fires are not rebuilt with the issue of fire safety at the top of mind. Read Pico Iyer to see how his family has dealt with wildfires.

It would be fun to see you in court acting as an arborist. You would melt down quicker than your hated Cobra.
 
Better yet, how do you think a power utility company would react to the notion of using synthetic cables to support their power delivery infrastructure poles anywhere in the world?

Well, yeah those cables are flammable, so what?

jomoco
 
This is funny, you would be a great expert witness, already changed from expressly written to ample evidence and very high.

Perhaps if you scream, stamp your feet, then hold your breath people might agree with you.
 
So in your opinion use of synthetic cabling systems to support structurally compromised limbs over people and structures is A OK, regardless of its flammability....Mr Tree?

You see no faulty logic in your support of replacing a non-flammable steel support system, in favor of a flammable one, barely 20 years old?

And your defense in court would be?

jomoco
 
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