Almost Terrible Mishap

Great posts and thanks for the kind words. I have to see some follow through by the boss. Buying gear is a great win but he has to contribute to the change of attitude through his attitude about and towards his employees. I think I can help. I'm just a small fish in a small pond but the guys look at me different than the other climbers. Well, I am different. I have a different set of life experiences that have molded me and made me who I am. I've spent 20 years making sense of people chaos and emergencies so I can think on the fly and problem solve under pressure. I can't pick my own crew because there's currently only one crew to pick from but what I can do is pull who I want to be a pivotal part of my operations and the rest drag the brush and attempt to operate a rake. I do and can give feedback on employees. I don't have the ability to send someone packing though. I'm not so sure I want that burden. I could be the only guy at work one day! Plus im "just a part timer" to quote another thread LOL. If I was there every day I would want more of that power but really what he needs is a foreman to keep consistency. I will work on a plan and policies. I have a bin of new earpro and eyepro at home and will give everyone a free set and let them know how I feel about it. I will continue to try to make a difference but the hard nut is gonna be the other climber. He's not gonna crack. He's my superior because he will climb stuff I won't. Just the other day he said he wished he could work someplace where he could learn from another innovative climber. Guess he hasn't noticed I don't spike prunings. Anyway. The was has not been won but the power has slightly shifted and improvements are in the works. Time will tell if this is a long term cure or the typical temporary bandaid.
 
Try to sell the boss on people wanting the job done safely, not just done. The right customers will pay for peace of mind, rather than tweeker central.

Tell the guys to let the boss know if they like improvements, like gear not breaking, and being part of a safe, effective crew where they can tell their family, "I'll see you tonight" with confidence.
 
Keep after him Steve. It's been a year since I did the same thing with my boss. Although he is much more legit than yours, safety and training were not even a blip on his radar. I was asked to help with the upgrade and we have come a long way. Still have some training issues but I can only control so much. One trick I picked up when he starts to slide on safety issues is to say " Do you XXXXXX XXXXXX, swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, so help me God?" Just a reminder that he is ultimately responsible.
One issue I have with trying to train the guys is I'm the youngest of the group of foreman. Some of these guys have 15 years on me and aren't willing to listen. I have offered to stay late if anyone has questions or wants some ideas on how to do things. Not to many takers, but the ones that do really show promise.
My crew knows the rules and they don't let the other crews slide if they for some reason get "borrowed" for the day.

Sorry if my response is a little wordy. I've been up for way to many hours.
 
It is actually paid time. That's the part that bothers me about very few guys doing it. I do a lot of instructing during the day with my crew. The problem is that there are three other crews, occasionally four. It has been noticed that my crew is the most productive. The boss is not gonna have me work with other crews since I need to lead mine daily.
 
I wish you the best with the new situation Steve. Just a question...you are not affraid sometime during removals? I mean when you send big pieces , there bigger risks... Is there someone on the work site that could put an harness on and rescue you in the tree? For me it's a no go if there not a other climber on the job, maybe I'm lucky to work with that compagny or maybe I'm a pussy to.
 
I wish you the best with the new situation Steve. Just a question...you are not affraid sometime during removals? I mean when you send big pieces , there bigger risks... Is there someone on the work site that could put an harness on and rescue you in the tree? For me it's a no go if there not a other climber on the job, maybe I'm lucky to work with that compagny or maybe I'm a pussy to.

I just don't think about it. I think about getting hurt but never being rescued. I guess I've spent so many years being the rescuer it doesn't seem like a natural thought to be rescued. Make sense? Sometimes I ave another climber there. Mr. Bigshot. He's not gonna get it done. I suppose I'm more confident in the local technical rescue teams fumbling through a rescue because I trained them. Now they may not be proficient at all due to lack of practice but that's a whole different issue.
 
Wow! Sure went to shite!


There is no way you shld be providing rudimentary equipment for the company you work for.

I can see you providing things that may bring finess or are innovative but blocks, rope, slings, and other staples of the job is absurd.

Mayhe after this accident the boss will be open to buying these things.

A self spliced sling doesnt cost very much.

On that note, there is nothing wrong with a hank of rope as a sling for the porty. However gear should be inspected before use and in good working condition.
The onus of supplying safe gear falls to the employer (or whoever he has delegated for that task, if so). But the fact that you pulled it out, you tied it to the tree, you loaded it beyond what it was currently good for and either didn't inspect it or did and voided the inspection by using it. The onus of safe work practices fall on each and every employee.
The cutter loaded it, the rigger threaded it, the foreman didn't say whoa Nelly give your head a shake that thing looks like crap.

This is why regular gear (climbing & rigging) inspections should be done and overseen and signed off by H&S rep. This provides enough redundancies that someone should see it and DOCUMENT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

If some one had have been hurt or the labour board inspector started digging or or or all of your asses would have been in a sling for more then paint and pavement.

That's my 2 cents.
 
We will have more legal involvement when there is more fatalities. It's a matter of time before it happens. Let me be more explicit, Steve's boss got away lucky with that headache. Yeah, it sucks but obviously not enough for this guy to change his way of operating or for clients to desert him in droves. Imagine the headache or more, the heartache if that women had been crushed in her car or a passerby walking under Steve was seriously injured because his crew let them pass without warning him.

I do use hack work and DIY accidents as a means to illustrate the point of using professionals. What I don't want to see is more regs based on more accidents and bad practices.
Steve's boss got away with a headache... But what I heard from the original post is there'll be another crappy scrap of rope on there tomorrow.
What I want to know is what steps were taken by whomever after this problem? Did the boss him self pull out an old scrap Hank and tie it on, did he tell someone to, did anyone suggest new db/Tenex/etc?
Everyone loves the damage and screw up pics but how was it dealt with?
As well ur gear ur crew is fine but if you stay with the whole team raise standards raise training since u r the best and most paid and most skilled. As part of a team if you are top dog you should be trying to get everyone to surpass you. That's a good leader in my book.
On the job training is a lot of what we get so never ever squander it. I work with friends that have wives, gfs, kids, families. My #1 priority is to make sure we as a team do everything we can to keep anyone's future from getting screwed over whether it be injury, law suit, or just feeling like crap for property damage.
If you have unskilled workers in your crew you can't say how great you are until you have helped them grow.
Arboriculture is a small world and a team stay on it.

Imo
 
Ever
I just don't think about it. I think about getting hurt but never being rescued. I guess I've spent so many years being the rescuer it doesn't seem like a natural thought to be rescued. Make sense? Sometimes I ave another climber there. Mr. Bigshot. He's not gonna get it done. I suppose I'm more confident in the local technical rescue teams fumbling through a rescue because I trained them. Now they may not be proficient at all due to lack of practice but that's a whole different issue.
Every company should have an aerial rescue procedure that everyone has been taught and signed off on
 
Steve's boss got away with a headache... But what I heard from the original post is there'll be another crappy scrap of rope on there tomorrow.
What I want to know is what steps were taken by whomever after this problem? Did the boss him self pull out an old scrap Hank and tie it on, did he tell someone to, did anyone suggest new db/Tenex/etc?
Everyone loves the damage and screw up pics but how was it dealt with?
As well ur gear ur crew is fine but if you stay with the whole team raise standards raise training since u r the best and most paid and most skilled. As part of a team if you are top dog you should be trying to get everyone to surpass you. That's a good leader in my book.
On the job training is a lot of what we get so never ever squander it. I work with friends that have wives, gfs, kids, families. My #1 priority is to make sure we as a team do everything we can to keep anyone's future from getting screwed over whether it be injury, law suit, or just feeling like crap for property damage.
If you have unskilled workers in your crew you can't say how great you are until you have helped them grow.
Arboriculture is a small world and a team stay on it.

Imo

Short answer to a long question. The piece was on there because the whoopee was so used and dirty that it would no longer adjust. It was basically locked open. No adjustment. Made the foreman aware, told him to wash it and that may loosen things up but none the less, it was due for replacement. Never saw it again and was "I know" every time I mentioned it needing replacement. After a while, I stopped asking. Been asking for new ropes for a long time. Nothing or a rope that's not what we need because the foreman, who has never done tree work before picked it up at the local lawnmower dealership chain. It is what it is. I can ask the boss for stuff till I'm blue in the face, still not gonna get it unless he's ready to purchase it. He's older school, not old school, but older school. You make due with what you have. It's worked for me so far so just get it done.

I have preached and pleaded and argued and on and on. It doesn't change because nothing major happens, by luck. So the cycle continues because the mindset is, nothings gonna happen and Steve's being a puss about the gear. Well, that's when I understood the mentality I was dealing with. Bought all my own stuff and combatted the safety issue by using safe gear. The catch was, why should he buy stuff when he gets mine for free? Its a cycle that was broken only by two close calls in a row and a long email from me saying somebody's gonna die. So he got us gear. Not all of it is on the truck. Just some. I don't understand the rationale about what is on the job and what's in the shop. I ordered what we need, not extra stuff. Oh well. Not much has changed, just new gear. Work practices remain the same. The other climber uses the old rope just so he doesn't have to sling a block in the tree. I don't get it. Still no hardhats. Brand new chaps nobody uses, blah blah blah. Not getting anyplace with the foreman. He's "sick of Steve's mouth". I was nice about the safety aspect of things. I'm beginning to ride asses about stuff because no one appreciates the small progress we've made and they all treat the gear like it is disposable. It's a shit show at best. 3 saws, 660 and 2 husky climbing saws. Everything else is broken. New saws lasting 2 or 3 months. Where do they go, the money go, and all the good workers go?

Look, I fight the good fight brother. I train where I can. I try to care most days. I try to make due and be positive. I try to be safe and set the example. My response to that it you can only train the trainable. Not everybody wants to learn. Positivity is a choice all are not willing to make. Caring comes with responsibility and is also a choice. When you feel cared about, you may choose to care more. Look, if these guys could find other paying jobs, they would. They don't give a crap. They can't get hired anywhere else, be it criminal background, drugs, no CDL, or even a DL. I'm trying
 
Sorry, had to run. Anywhoo. I try to pass along everything I can to anyone who will listen. Unfortunately, not due to delivery but due to interest, those are few. I have my rope man I try to invest everything I can in. He's conflicted because when I'm not there they expect totally different practices from him. I always greet him with "so how was it yesterday?" The other climber isn't interested. He truly believes he's superior to me because he'll climb stuff I just wont. His claim to fame is dangerously dead shit and that he's never turned down a tree. He can be a little bit of a dick about it but I just remind him he's superior to me in his ignorance alone. Short conversation usually.

Look, here it is in a nut shell. I should quit. I shouldn't be there. There are so many reasons to quit. So many. Be it pay a month overdue, safety, gear, attitude, expectations, you name it. The truth is, I love the job. I have 12 months of work where others don't. I get paid more than others would pay me. He works with my schedule, where others wont. He generally treats me like a man, with respect and autonomy. Mostly I feel like he needs me and appreciates me. Not always but sometimes. There are lots of other instances where I'm shown how little I'm appreciated at a certain moment but in the big picture I tend to take the "it is what it is" attitude.

So, rather than ramble on. I bring all my own stuff including saws. It works. It's not my end game but there are few in my area I'd be willing to leave where I am to move to. This area sucks for serious tree work. So there it is. Call me complicit in this breakdown. Maybe I am, but I do what I can. I have learned where I can make an impact and where it's a complete waste of my time. I accept that. Some couldn't but I can.
 
Shoulda, woulda, coulda... As a wise person once said to me, "Don't should on yourself". With any negotiation, and that's what you're doing, you will never be able to win if you can't walk away. As long as you stay then things won't change. More so for you than them. You say you try but that is just another one of those words that allow for failure to do. You've got to decide to take a stance. Start by doing an equipment check before you roll out. If it's not on the truck then get it and put it on there. Not wearing helmets or chaps. STOP the work until they do.

You need to decide if your principles and wellbeing are more important than being paid better. He's not treating you with respect if he allows your real concerns to go by the wayside and then accept the other climber disrespecting you.
Personally, I'd be looking to leave and find a better company anywhere. You can always help them grow the business so they are busy 12 mths.

Time to decide....
899-
 
I hear you and believe we have had this discussion once before. It's a difficult decision for me. Maybe not so from someone able to see it in a broader picture. The options are not much better in my area believe it or not. It's a question of what I'm willing to compromise not if I'm willing. They've all got issues. Some are asshole bosses or shady work practices. I meet them at the job so I don't have the ability to oversee the gear loading. I have sent the foreman back to the shop to get stuff but that never ends well.

There is a company who'd take me. Good guys starting out. The money isn't worth my travel time and they spike Prunings. So where do I fit in around here? Seems like we are riddled with hacks who drive prices down to a point where my income will suffer by $10 an hour or more the answer is start my own gig. It just won't work for now. So I keep my feelers out always.
 
You're doing good Steve. Take him for what you can till you can find something better. The boss obviously wants (needs) you around or he would've told you to leave when you emailed him. He did the minimum to keep you though. As far as the other guys go, to hell with what they think. You do need to keep the rope man on your team though.
 

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