2023 Contract Climber Rates?

[rico]

I see very very little of that, typically it's 6-10 guys with chippers and boom trucks smashing through a few trees working 4-5 hours of the day leaving shit everywhere and not chipping the brush.

I see very very little of that, typically it's 6-10 guys with chippers and boom trucks smashing through a few trees working 4-5 hours of the day leaving shit everywhere and not chipping the brush.

Sad to see them go the way of hackery and mediocrity.

 

[data farm 26]

America's problem go way beyond ethnic lines and poor choice is color blind. The fact is that being white can many times make the penalty for those poor choices less consequential, and the data bears this out. Minorities do more time for the same crime. Same goes for income and family wealth.

I spent a majority of the last 8 months building a timber framed house on the coast and the level of racism and homophobia on the job-site was shocking. A constant barrage of faggot, dumb mexican, beaner, the n word, etc. I was there to learn so I kept my mouth shut and my head down. A soul sucking experience for sure.

Yep, I grew up in home building trades, racism and homophobia was the norm here too. Not so much in my tree work experience.

 

[data farm 26]

@L3VI That says nothing really, just an idea of a theory. Give a write out of how you would break out cost and wages from a owner down to a groundie

Edit - please include cost to homeowner to...what is a fair price to remove a tree if they do or do not have much money

I don't really feel like penciling it out but I don't think it'd take much imagination if you wanted to write it out for yourself. There are plenty of worker cooperatives to draw from and other established businesses like b-corps in the services.

 

[climbhightree]

I don't really feel like penciling it out but I don't think it'd take much imagination if you wanted to write it out for yourself. There are plenty of worker cooperatives to draw from and other established businesses like b-corps in the services.

OK was just trying to have a factual debate and get it past just ideas and theories, but if you don't want support your side by presenting an outline of a real world example for a tree company, that is OK.

I just don't see how it would work and everyone would feel equally treated and fair in compensation, work load, risks, etc. And still be able to grow the company with people coming in and out of it

 

[RyanCafferky]

I don't really feel like penciling it out but I don't think it'd take much imagination if you wanted to write it out for yourself. There are plenty of worker cooperatives to draw from and other established businesses like b-corps in the services.

How about just pay the median wage for the job being done and then have a bonus system based on hours worked and company profitability. Charge customers a fair rate for the work being done. Pretty simple really. When bonuses go out you leave enough in the pot to maintain equipment and just buy and upgrade equipment on credit which is covered by the company (ie the workers).

 

[data farm 26]

If

OK was just trying to have a factual debate and get it past just ideas and theories, but if you don't want support your side by presenting an outline of a real world example for a tree company, that is OK.

I just don't see how it would work and everyone would feel equally treated and fair in compensation, work load, risks, etc.

Employee-Ownership

Our status as an employee-owned company allows us to offer better solar designs, installations, and experiences for our customers in Colorado.

www.namastesolar.com

If you poke around in this site the explain how they do it pretty well.

I'm not much of a numbers guy I usually just shoot from the hip and ask questions later. My business has almost no overhead and I split the dough with my brother 50/50. Whatever extra we have we either take for a bonus or get some new gear, but usually just pocket the extra. Kinda like Ryan is describing.

 

[climbhightree]

How about just pay the median wage for the job being done and then have a bonus system based on hours worked and company profitability. Charge customers a fair rate for the work being done. Pretty simple really. When bonuses go out you leave enough in the pot to maintain equipment and just buy and upgrade equipment on credit which is covered by the company (ie the workers).

Yes but those still are just words. Someone along that line is almost always going to feels screwed. Feels like too much was left in the business, feels like they put more money/time in the business, feels like the cost of work was too high (but they had to get it done...so now they are strapped for money or not making a life).

This is why most partnerships fail or break apart.

So this is why I'm asking for real world numbers to be put in and drawn out. Who pays for that first chipper, Truck, saws etc. Do the ones that bring these to the table get more? As they upgrade, do they get a bigger share? Those that stay stagnant always get the same share, even though they are not trying to improve? At what point does that stagnant person feel he isn't making enough money and say he is being held back by the others.

 

[data farm 26]

OK was just trying to have a factual debate and get it past just ideas and theories, but if you don't want support your side by presenting an outline of a real world example for a tree company, that is OK.

I just don't see how it would work and everyone would feel equally treated and fair in compensation, work load, risks, etc. And still be able to grow the company with people coming in and out of it

etc. Do the ones that bring these to the table get more?

Naturally, yes.

The sub contractor collectives I have worked with are pretty simple. One guy gets a job, he knows everyone else's rates and what equipment/skills they bring to the table and bids accordingly. Usually these coagulate into a typical hierarchy where one person is getting most of the jobs but there is some variance a flux always. Some guys only want to do groundwork and get 300 a day or others want to grow their brand and equipment and get 1000 a day or more. Everyone handles their own administrative work. People come and go as they please.

 

[climbhightree]

If

Employee-Ownership

Our status as an employee-owned company allows us to offer better solar designs, installations, and experiences for our customers in Colorado.

www.namastesolar.com

If you poke around in this site the explain how they do it pretty well.

I'm not much of a numbers guy I usually just shoot from the hip and ask questions later. My business has almost no overhead and I split the dough with my brother 50/50. Whatever extra we have we either take for a bonus or get some new gear, but usually just pocket the extra. Kinda like Ryan is describing.

OK. So that company was established in 2005,and only became the employee owned thing in 2011. So it was a well established company with likely most of the start up risks and cost already dealt with...and most likely the owner already made a really decent profit. He probably still does...i would luv to see a break out of the controling stock options. Often stock options makes one feel included and gives one the warm fuzzy feeling, but in reality doesn't really share the wealth.

 

[data farm 26]

OK. So that company was established in 2005,and only became the employee owned thing in 2011. So it was a well established company with likely most of the start up risks and cost already dealt with...and most likely the owner already made a really decent profit. He probably still does...i would luv to see a break out of the controling stock options. Often stock options makes one feel included and gives one the warm fuzzy feeling, but in reality doesn't really share the wealth.

If you read more on the site you'll see its a lot more than stock options, namely the 1 person one vote democratic structure. That's more than warm fuzzies in my opinion.

 

[climbhightree]

Naturally, yes.

The sub contractor collectives I have worked with are pretty simple. One guy gets a job, he knows everyone else's rates and what equipment/skills they bring to the table and bids accordingly. Usually these coagulate into a typical hierarchy where one person is getting most of the jobs but there is some variance a flux always. Some guys only want to do groundwork and get 300 a day or others want to grow their brand and equipment and get 1000 a day or more. Everyone handles their own administrative work. People come and go as they please.

But that groundie may not be getting a livable wage. Eventually he might think he deserves a bigger cut.

 

[rico]

Yep, I grew up in home building trades, racism and homophobia was the norm here too. Not so much in my tree work experience.

It was a trip because when I first joined the crew some of the Mexican laborers were not very friendly because I am a gringo (and a ginger to boot). After a few days in the trenches digging footings by hand for 10 hours a day they realized I was one of them. They became my homies on the job and were the ones I spent breaks and lunch with. I will never forget some of the lunches their wives cooked for us to eat at lunch Fucking amazing.

These men were incredibly hardworking, intelligent, and talented and I was not shocked to find out that their pay was not commensurate with their skillsets and work ethic.

 

[climbhightree]

If you read more on the site you'll see its a lot more than stock options, namely the 1 person one vote democratic structure. That's more than warm fuzzies in my opinion.

True, but doesn’t necessarily mean that his one vote has sway. Plus doesn't address the other things I mentioned

 

[Vicente]

Naturally, yes.

The sub contractor collectives I have worked with are pretty simple. One guy gets a job, he knows everyone else's rates and what equipment/skills they bring to the table and bids accordingly. Usually these coagulate into a typical hierarchy where one person is getting most of the jobs but there is some variance a flux always. Some guys only want to do groundwork and get 300 a day or others want to grow their brand and equipment and get 1000 a day or more. Everyone handles their own administrative work. People come and go as they please.

That only works in the format that it is though, completely separate businesses that chose to work together, and even so the guys making top dollar are still profiting from those who are making less usually the groundie, unless of course the top can bring in exactly the same hourly rate he's making without anyone else, usually you can't.

 

[data farm 26]

But that groundie may not be getting a livable wage. Eventually he might think he deserves a bigger cut.

He can get more jobs on his own, up his skills or equipment etc. Everyone seemed pretty happy when I was involved but I really don't know for sure.

 

[data farm 26]

That only works in the format that it is though, completely separate businesses that chose to work together, and even so the guys making top dollar are still profiting from those who are making less usually the groundie, unless of course the top can bring in exactly the same hourly rate he's making without anyone else, usually you can't.

In a sense yes but if you are just showing up to rake and pick up sticks and not trying to sell jobs yourself it's not a bad deal imo. And yes, they all depend on each other for sure to make their money.

 

[climbhightree]

He can get more jobs on his own, up his skills or equipment etc. Everyone seemed pretty happy when I was involved but I really don't know for sure.

Most likely because everyone had a good work ethic and was applying themselves, or bettering themselves.

 

[data farm 26]

True, but doesn’t necessarily mean that his one vote has sway. Plus doesn't address the other things I mentioned

How so? If the new member has a vote that equals the board of directors 1 vote I would call that pure democracy. Plus they have a 6:1 ratio for max pay difference and completely open books. Seems like a decent setup to me. I know the guy who started it, trimmed his trees. He's not rich but has a comfortable lifestyle. He's more of an idealist. He left this biz and started another b corp in Denver.

 

[data farm 26]

Most likely because everyone had a good work ethic and was applying themselves, or bettering themselves.

Exactly.

 

[Vicente]

In a sense yes but if you are just showing up to rake and pick up sticks and not trying to sell jobs yourself it's not a bad deal imo. And yes, they all depend on each other for sure to make their money.

So that's no different than being a groundie for a company who has the same aspirations just with less security.