Every year I keep hearing bigger and bigger sub rates at an increase that is going to send this indusrty over a cliff in this country. Is next year going to be $1800 a day? We are working on trees. Which is hard work and can be dangerous I get that. But when people are trying to say their value in $$$ is above the 300k mark a year for just climbing, something is a miss.
2023 Contract Climber Rates?
- Thread starter Chief
- Start date
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Only if they are cheating.
Historically, subs have worked as cash employees, taking a lot of personal risks, not being insured or paying taxes.
Nobody is forced to hire subs.
Historically, subs have worked as cash employees, taking a lot of personal risks, not being insured or paying taxes.
Nobody is forced to hire subs.
data farm 26
Been here a while
- Location
- Casablanca
I'm not sure how it is in other places but around here there are more than a few businesses that only hire subs, they have no employees on the books. They have them drive their trucks, use their equipment etc. Illegal but I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. Groundworkers included.
I only contract to 1 person I charge him 500 per day as the base he has a big track chipper but sometimes it's not running or just more hassle to bring to the job so I bring in my 95xp for an additional fee, if I don't like the tree very much or it's going to be really technical/tricky my rates go up a bit. Once we did a pine that had a really bad cat face right at the base I charged him 800 for that tree, I was also running the crew for the job (he had to be somewhere else) and I upsold another oak removal for an additional 800$ to me, we used my chipper I don't remember what or if I got additional for that either way very good day, but I wasn't just the climber for the job either I was running his crew doing the land clearing part of the job and upsold a 2600$ tree.
That Mass. treework scene, pioneered afaik by Dan Mayer, is just plain insane. It literally makes one wonder how there are trees left in that area. And it must be tough for folks without the outrageous equipment lineup to compete. Btw Dan is an awesome person in my experience.
Treetopflyer
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Coastal N.J
The market has lessend here slightly since certain equipment proves evident to beat climbers around here. Long gone are the 800 to 1k days for removals and prune mix days for climbers, here.. spider lifts let more trees be accessed without special climbers for certain prune specs and grapple Saws lessen their need as well on removals.. I don't personally know many climbers who made more then 8 ish semi regularly even before the technology advanced to compact track lifts allowing non climbers to get into back yard trees and cranes that reach over the houses...I had a guy .. Rawtree.. reach out to me in a direct message on here telling me good job for making a 7oo or 750 dollar day from some other cat I worked for on here back in around 2015 that was cool lol .. I don't think I've gotten much slower , little smarter maybe,, but I don't think in the particular economic scene I could repeat those numbers just on rope on my best day even for a company with little experience and a real need for good help. Sadly I see no other really good climbers coming up around here that I know of hardly and that sux.. kinda like the big iron and technology like usual is muting the skill set needed to be an ace climber.. see you old school ow Scott in that you and many others on here worked in an Era these certain items weren't imagined yet so true grit was needed to stay in business. I've got a foot in the fire and I've bitten into the technology Apple as much as the next guy, but I'm happy I grew up on rope before micro pulleys and wasn't handed a crane remote or a lift to boom me up to the top.. Sometimes even short timers think they deserve it cause it's hard and dangerous,but your right it's just tree work. Like you alluded to earlier there is parts of the world where all the equipment in the world don't mean shit. The biggest baddest trees are
Basically all still top down riggers with climber in the ropes and those people deserve the big pay for the big work. Alot of entitlement and getting what and when you can attitude in lands of milk and honey will inspire at least a few to ask for as much as they can when they can and only quit asking when they finally here too much. No one's fault really just the game of life ,no?
RyanCafferky
Been here a while
- Location
- Hood River, Oregon
The jobs I charge big rates for are typically trees that nobody else wants to do or the companies who bring me in don’t want to gamble on having other people take them on. A reputation for safety, consistency, and efficiency is what gives me the ability to ask for a little more on certain gigs. Especially in our market where we are not allowed to climb off the crane, there are not ANY large knuckleboom cranes, and the trees routinely top out at 130’-200’ and are often well out of reach of any cranes or lifts.
The new generation of climbers around here are getting good and are coming up building their skill set to meet the demands here in the northwest. But they often take way more time because they don’t have the experience to put all of those skills into practice in a high pressure environment on a high risk tree. Experience is valuable. It is the 25+ years of seeing shit go wrong and thus having that ability to see situations and immediately knowing what could or might happen and all of the ways to mitigate that from happening in an efficient manner that they are paying me for.
For me, the relationships with my clients are hugely important and are the key to a successful contractor/subcontractor relationship. But so is knowing your market and being willing to objectively look at yourself and what you bring to it and your place in it.
The new generation of climbers around here are getting good and are coming up building their skill set to meet the demands here in the northwest. But they often take way more time because they don’t have the experience to put all of those skills into practice in a high pressure environment on a high risk tree. Experience is valuable. It is the 25+ years of seeing shit go wrong and thus having that ability to see situations and immediately knowing what could or might happen and all of the ways to mitigate that from happening in an efficient manner that they are paying me for.
For me, the relationships with my clients are hugely important and are the key to a successful contractor/subcontractor relationship. But so is knowing your market and being willing to objectively look at yourself and what you bring to it and your place in it.
Ryan I agree with everything you are saying here. West coast, high risk trees nobody else wants is altogether a different matter. The point I am making here is regarding standard tree work and $1400 a day sounds like a ridiculous number.
KentuckySawyer
Participating member
- Location
- Louisville
With no sick days, no vacation/holiday pay, no opportunity for advancement, no retirement... and worst of all... no company provided snacks.
Ent
New member
- Location
- Longmont, CO
Firstly, why do you need contract work with such proficiency, tools, & crew? Secondly, why would a company pay that much and lose all profits on a job? I'm assuming a companies incompetance would be the answer to the second question. But still, why would they choose to do the job and lose or make no money? Times are crazy. I do love tree work but I think at times we over value our trade and skill set sometimes. Sounds to me like you should just run your own show instead of gauging companies for contract work.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
I don't understand how setting your own rates and letting the customer decide if your valuation of your offerings is gouging.
If the general contractor tree company is able to do work they otherwise wouldn't be doing without subcontracting, and are bidding their work according to their business needs, the general contractor will make money off the rest of the parts that the general contractor provides, and decides to bid to get any profit from the subcontractor (bidding X% more than the subcontractor is charging).
Can someone explain what they mean?
If the general contractor tree company is able to do work they otherwise wouldn't be doing without subcontracting, and are bidding their work according to their business needs, the general contractor will make money off the rest of the parts that the general contractor provides, and decides to bid to get any profit from the subcontractor (bidding X% more than the subcontractor is charging).
Can someone explain what they mean?
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
I personally never said it was price gouging, per say. What I did say is that the price is extremely high for such little overhead and sales effort/work...at least for my area of operation. To pay Derrick Martin 600-700 for a day's work was pushing it for me...and he is a good friend. There were often jobs were he made about as much as I did on it, and that isn't really fair in my opinion. I hire him because he was a friend, I felt like being lazy, and it gave my wife a day off.
It isn't price gouging if tree company and homeowner knows the cost up front, and agree to that set price. I could also bring up someone in the knuckleboom world that I definitely feel is price gouging though...but I'll leave it at that.
Ent
New member
- Location
- Longmont, CO
$1400/day is ludicrous. Maybe that word is better than gauging? Do you think that's a legit rate to pay a climber on one of your job sites?
Put another way. At that rate, working 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, 50 weeks per year you'd be pulling $300,000+ annually.
Obviously a gross oversimplification, but most doctors and lawyers can't claim that, and they're not simply cutting some trees.
Obviously a gross oversimplification, but most doctors and lawyers can't claim that, and they're not simply cutting some trees.
Matias
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Butte County
My personal best for a day was $1100, and I didn't really want the job, so asked for enough that I thought it would be discouraging. They didn't hesitate to say yes, as they really didn't wanna do it; it was growing through the roof and had reached the edges of the slot.
I have also been turned down for less than $500, so I think that the pattern here is that there's a wide range, just like at any other layer of this chain of integration.
Sometimes I think people get tired of dealing with shit, and they just say yes to whoever is lucky enough to be there when they get tired of spending any more time figuring it out.
I have also been turned down for less than $500, so I think that the pattern here is that there's a wide range, just like at any other layer of this chain of integration.
Sometimes I think people get tired of dealing with shit, and they just say yes to whoever is lucky enough to be there when they get tired of spending any more time figuring it out.
Matias
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Butte County
Do contract climbers who don't run their own business directly typically get that many full 8's a year? Or even try to do that? I thought part of the draw of that kind of work is that you can take time off when you want to. Asking seriously, as I am pretty new tothis
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
Well technically any time they work they get a 8...simce there is no 4,6,7 etc. even if that is all they worked.
I agree they all might not work a full 5 days a week and full 50 weeks...but the ones I know stay really busy.
Probably not, that's why I said gross oversimplification. But there are businesses that don't pull in that much revenue per year. And we're here talking about one guy with minimal overhead.
data farm 26
Been here a while
- Location
- Casablanca
Makes me think of some folks I used to work for that were always trying to tack on some extra jobs when we finished early, getting greedy.
hourly seems like it's the way to go unless it's people you really trust.
hourly seems like it's the way to go unless it's people you really trust.
Ent
New member
- Location
- Longmont, CO
This happened continously to me as an employee as you know. Something I try my best not to do as a business owner unless there is some emergency. Having said that, I didn't mind so much. I do the work because I like it, and like working with good tree people. The money is necessary. And everyone needs to make a wage that provides them an enjoyable life with their people. It's just surprising to me what people need to live on. Some of these comments putting these, what I consider high contractor rates, on the customer's bill, doesn't sit well me personally. Maybe don't bid the job if they need to pay that much to a subcontractor to get it done. I'm not even sure what the point of the original post is. Was there a hope that maybe someone else was maybe making $1750/day and they could raise their rate?Makes me think of some folks I used to work for that were always trying to tack on some extra jobs when we finished early, getting greedy.
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