2 burning questions

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1. What is the difference between a marl and a half hitch?
2. If one is using a rope at 15% of MBS what is the safety factor?

I was to present a lecture on ropes to the fire department and the slide show that I was required to do had some errors. At least I am pretty sure they were errors.
 
[ QUOTE ]
1. What is the difference between a marl and a half hitch?
2. If one is using a rope at 15% of MBS what is the safety factor?

I was to present a lecture on ropes to the fire department and the slide show that I was required to do had some errors. At least I am pretty sure they were errors.

[/ QUOTE ]
Illustration by Bryan Kotwica:

291761-HalfHitchvs.Marl.png


[/ QUOTE ]
 
Does anyone use a Marl instead of a Half Hitch (for the application illustrated above)? Is there any advantage? I know the piece can roll out of a Half Hitch if the rope isn't wrapped in the proper direction. Is the Marl error proof when it comes to this?
 
More so, yes. Its generally accepted as a more secure method to support a bowline or clove hitch.

Its tree work though...nothing is 'error proof.' I would say that it eliminates a variable. This work is all about eliminating variables which may lead to undesirable outcomes. (I'm sure you're aware of that)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. What is the difference between a marl and a half hitch?
2. If one is using a rope at 15% of MBS what is the safety factor?

I was to present a lecture on ropes to the fire department and the slide show that I was required to do had some errors. At least I am pretty sure they were errors.

[/ QUOTE ]
Illustration by Bryan Kotwica:

291761-HalfHitchvs.Marl.png


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

AWESOME! thank you for posting that. FINALLY! I've been asking that for years.

So, the MARL is better? Correct?
 
Marl keeps the rope in place better than a half hitch, while tying the termination knot, making it easier to tie on certain pieces... usually large pieces.. I never heard anything about it holding better during rigging.. very much doubt that to be the case..
 
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone use a Marl instead of a Half Hitch (for the application illustrated above)? Is there any advantage? I know the piece can roll out of a Half Hitch if the rope isn't wrapped in the proper direction. Is the Marl error proof when it comes to this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I use the marline hitch all the time. I've had pieces roll out of a half, not so with the marline hitch.
 
Today I've been combining files off of an old PC hard drive and getting them onto my Mac. While I was blending I saw this file.

A long [in Internet years] time ago this question came up on the original ISA discussion forum. That sent me to Ashley's Book of Knots for the answer.

This is what I wrote back in '99.


canopytree@aol.com
Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:41:43 -0600 (CST)

Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]


This flap about using a Marl or a Half hitch goes back a few years. There are probably some folks that
can remember the border war between the two famous, but unnamed riggers.

Grab your copy of The Ashley Book of Knots, you DO have a copy don't you? No? Every rigger should
have one on the shelf. Go to page 518, top left. I will quote Ashley first:

"3114. HALF HITCHING (HH): Unless put around a rope, this is really single hitching but is commonly
called "half hitching". It is a method of lashing in which a series of SINGLE HITCHES is employed to
secure one or several objects, and it is universally used in tying up parcels, bundles and bales.

3115. MARLINE HITCHING (MH) is used to secure parceling on standing rigging. It is preferred to
half hitching, as service lies over it more smoothly. It is also used in lacing the foot and heads of
fore-and-aft sails to booms and gaffs and in lashing hammocks. It is firmer than half hitching. The
difference in construction between the two may be illustrated by tying a series on a cylinder and then
slipping them off the end. HALF HITCHING spills instantly and completely, whereas MARLINE
HITCHING resolves itself into a series of OVERHAND KNOTS."

To tie the MH and HH get two pop, soda for the East coast, bottles and two shoe laces about three feet
long. Tie a running bowline around the necks of both bottles and let the laces hang. The HH is tied by
passing the lace around the bottle then, when it somes back to the front, it goes UNDER the piece of
rope that exited the bowline. The MH is tied by passing the lace around the bottle then, when the it
comes back in front, it goes OVER the piece of rope that exited the bowline.

While I was preparing this post I played with the laces on my soda bottles and found a little difference
in use. With a HH it acted like a bit of a choker and the HH would tighten up but would roll down the
bottle in the same fashion as dropping a chunk from rigging. If the rope stretched too much when the
piece hit the the pulley, or too much slack was left, the HH could roll right off the butt. The MH would
tighten too but it does not seem to roll down the bottle. That is why a MH is recommended for a back up
to a running bowline.

Take the time to tie these with a bottle or a small chunk, you will see a difference.

Arborists are Johnny-Come-Latelys to rigging and rope work. It is necessary to look back every once in
a while to see what our ancestors did and take those skills forward in whole, not just by pieces. Naming
knots correctly and tieing them correctly is just as important as making collar cuts and not over-pruning
trees.

Strong limbs and snug ropes!

Tom
 
I am sitting here thinking about what I tie. I will be checking next time I set up. If I am thinking correctly, I use a half hitch when top roping typically and a marl when blocking. I don't think I ever recall seeing much of a slipping in my rigging, but I usually dress things well.
 
That is an excellent post Tom..
Thanks for sharing and we all should take Ashley up on his shoe laces offer and report back.. I too have seen no appreciable slippage in the HH, but will switch to a marl on occasion and pay attention to the difference in the field. I always just thought that the marl was easier to tie.
 
any "knot" will reduce rope efficiency by 50%, most "hitches" will reduce rope efficiency by 20%. a marl is a knot and a half hitch........ well, it's a hitch 'nuff said.
 

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