CSA Standard Z62.1-15 for Chainsaws - Spark Arrestors

[MasonH]

I'm trying to track down a free version of the current CSA standards for chainsaws. All online copies are behind a $125 pay wall.

My question is about spark arrestors and whether your are legally bound to keep them attached or if you are fine to remove them in a residential tree care setting. Any advice or references on the subject would be appreciated. Thank you

Edit: I was able to access the CSA document and section 5.7.3 states that all chainsaws shall have spark arresting mufflers.

 

[Matias]

I don't have any answers, but the number of rules and standards that can only be accessed through paywalls is infuriating. How are we supposed to follow the rules if they won't let us see them. It should be factored into the fines for the rule breakers. The rules could be freely, and easily visible, and then there'd be no excuse for not knowing them, which would justify fining people enough to pay the writers and publishers.

 

[Bart_]

CSA standards are $ guarded plenty for many years. Often they are variations of UL tests. For clues look up other corresponding standards. Legality I don't know. Practical we all know the status quo.

 

[Matias]

CSA standards are $ guarded plenty for many years. Often they are variations of UL tests. For clues look up other corresponding standards. Legality I don't know. Practical we all know the status quo.

Just because that's how it is and has been doesn't mean it's how it should be. We all know, or at least should know how to manage the practical side of things, but if you catch a random inspection at a jobsite, which I have, and they find some little thing, like removing the spark arrestor or modding your exhaust, despite the fact that there's zero chance your exhaust will start a fire in a sterile environment in the middle of the wet season, they can slap you with a fat fine.

 

[Phil]

My question is about spark arrestors and whether your are legally bound to keep them attached or if you are fine to remove them in a residential tree care setting.

I have wondered this myself. The legality of it is kinda grey. I look at it like this: the spark arrestor is a safety feature designed by the manufacturer to mitigate a known potential for the saw to start fires in dry vegetation/organic matter due to sparks from the exhaust. If you remove it and inadvertently start a fire, and an investigation reveals you removed a safety feature whose design was to prevent ignition of dry vegetation, you might be found liable for damages. The likelihood this happening may be slim, but consider your work environment. Are in in the dry arid south/western US? Do you work on fibrous palm trees? I have heard that the US Forest service requires the spark arrestor to be on the saw, but I cannot verify this as fact.

I will add that even with the spark arrestor on my saw, I have ignited a dry punky stump while flushing it.

 

[Matias]

I have wondered this myself. The legality of it is kinda grey. I look at it like this: the spark arrestor is a safety feature designed by the manufacturer to mitigate a known potential for the saw to start fires in dry vegetation/organic matter due to sparks from the exhaust. If you remove it and inadvertently start a fire, and an investigation reveals you removed a safety feature whose design was to prevent ignition of dry vegetation, you might be found liable for damages. The likelihood this happening may be slim, but consider your work environment. Are in in the dry arid south/western US? Do you work on fibrous palm trees? I have heard that the US Forest service requires the spark arrestor to be on the saw, but I cannot verify this as fact.

I will add that even with the spark arrestor on my saw, I have ignited a dry punky stump while flushing it.

Last I heard CalOSHA requires arrestors at all times, but that could just be a California thing. That said, I see loads of guys around here running ported exhaust on top handle saws, even in summer, and I can't think of one fire attributed to it in my career. I wasn't paying any attention to that kind of thing before 5 years ago, so take it with a rock of salt.

 

[MasonH]

I don't have any answers, but the number of rules and standards that can only be accessed through paywalls is infuriating. How are we supposed to follow the rules if they won't let us see them. It should be factored into the fines for the rule breakers. The rules could be freely, and easily visible, and then there'd be no excuse for not knowing them, which would justify fining people enough to pay the writers and publishers.

It's very frustrating. I wonder if there would be any interest on this site for a go fund me to purchase the Z62.1-15 standards so that they could be posted publicly and pinned. Worth a try when I get some free time, would have to also look into potential legal ramifications of doing that.

Doing that is definitely an infringement of copyright. However I was actually able to access the document by getting a CSA web account and section 5.7.3 states that all chainsaws shall have spark arresting mufflers.

 

[Bart_]

I worked with a guy who worked at CSA and visited there once for work purposes. They are a private firm with revenue streams from standards sales and testing performed. They need bread and butter too to stay afloat.

CSA approval is often for OEM product approval/liability for importing and sales just like UL or ESA. What you do after purchase is a different kettle of fish. Legal beagle territory, which varies by country or region.

 

[evo]

Please excuse my ignorance what is CSA?

I know all federal lands require spark arrestors on ALL internal combustion engines. Vehicles included. WA DNR lands too.
Many standards require OEM compliance.

Now there are ways to make things less noticeable, I highly doubt any authority is going to disassemble a saw and measure the ports. There are ways of opening existing exhaust, gutting baffles, and not changing the stock appearance. These will likely fly under all radar UNLESS there is an incident within which would likely cause a much more throughout inspection.

And yes, un spark arrested saws can and will cause fires in some conditions. So can a spark thrown from a chain!

Pay attention to drought conditions where they require a Hoot Owls, grave yard only, or complete shutdowns in logging operations. I’m curious if these apply to ‘us’ in urban settings as well. I know I at least adjust my operations during these times..

 

[Matias]

I worked with a guy who worked at CSA and visited there once for work purposes. They are a private firm with revenue streams from standards sales and testing performed. They need bread and butter too to stay afloat.

CSA approval is often for OEM product approval/liability for importing and sales just like UL or ESA. What you do after purchase is a different kettle of fish. Legal beagle territory, which varies by country or region.

I still don't see why it's not up to the agency enforcing those standards to pay for the CSA's literature to make it freely available to anyone subject to those standards. There's more than one way to cover that expense.

 

[ghostice]

So hows this for a communist (Cant-ada) country racket - few years ago we had our furnaces replaced with newer high efficiency ones - the flue for two old gas furnaces and the two water tanks was over sized so the City of Calgary sent out some dumb a$$ gas inspector (fat belly, few years from way outsized pension) who looked at them, then wrote up a big long document which he emailed to us saying that a liner had to be put in and it is up to the homeowner to comply with the "Code" or else, blah blah etc. So I tried to look up the gas code in our area and came up with the same barrier - I couldn't look at the CSA (Canadian Standards Association) documents directly referred to that I needed to comply with because I need to buy a $250.00 "CSA subscription" - and there are measurements for roof heights, run lengths and calculations to do. So back I go to the inspector who then told me "I'm not here to baby sit". Really. Finally did find a plumbing company we'd used before who out of the kindness of their hearts took the measurements I gave them and did the calc sheets in the CSA docs and gave me an answer. End that fiasco.
But, what I can suggest maybe is to go to any engineers you know and if they work for a company that does design work - they may have a subscription to CSA standards that will have the one you need (go to him with a specific standard number/ year to not waste time). Things up here are pretty bad actually (I used to work in engineering, procurement and construction) and it's not just the BC government giving free Fentanyl smokes to kids without the kids parents knowledge or consent (I am not kidding). You cannot make this stuff up. And yeah CSA can hide behind all the revenue stream excuses they like - they're a sanctioned racket. Once a light switch is UL tested or CE tested what is so different with our electrons up here? A racket.

 

[Matias]

I think in a communist/socialist reality, those standards would be freely accessible, as they would be paid for by taxes, not written by a for profit agency, but I agree with the point you make wholeheartedly!

 

[pete3d]

Please excuse my ignorance what is CSA?

Testing and Certification

CSA Group performs testing inspection and certification for products worldwide. As a leading testing and certification company, we certify consumer, commercial, and industrial products around the world, including Canada and the U.S. Rely on the testing inspection and certification experts with...

www.csagroup.org

They are a private nonprofit organization that tests, certifies, and writes specifications for appliances and equipment, primarily for the Canadian market.

 

[evo]

Testing and Certification

CSA Group performs testing inspection and certification for products worldwide. As a leading testing and certification company, we certify consumer, commercial, and industrial products around the world, including Canada and the U.S. Rely on the testing inspection and certification experts with...

www.csagroup.org

They are a private nonprofit organization that tests, certifies, and writes specifications for appliances and equipment, primarily for the Canadian market.

Gotcha so primarily a Canadian thing?

 

[Bart_]

For perspective, look up a good handful of standards organizations, then enforcement bodies and be thankful you're not a bureaucrat in that field.

Tale to tell. A fellow working in/around EEG machine did an electrical no-no to his own head. I was associated with that field at the time and from the date of sale/mfr to years later the IEEE orr European equivalent or both EEG ground protection/isolation standards evolved. Pick a field, SAE, ASME, building code etc that's the gist of standards/enforcement/liability.

I got real careful after looking into that guy's eyes and conversing with him.

 

[Matias]

For perspective, look up a good handful of standards organizations, then enforcement bodies and be thankful you're not a bureaucrat in that field.

Tale to tell. A fellow working in/around EEG machine did an electrical no-no to his own head. I was associated with that field at the time and from the date of sale/mfr to years later the IEEE orr European equivalent or both EEG ground protection/isolation standards evolved. Pick a field, SAE, ASME, building code etc that's the gist of standards/enforcement/liability.

I got real careful after looking into that guy's eyes and conversing with him.

I'm not sure I understand why that means that there isn't a better way this could be managed? I know changing the status quo takes effort, and that can come with some growing pains, but I don't think I'm alone, or even in the minority, when I say that there's probably a better way, and we should continue to seek that better way.

 

[Bart_]

What exactly is your plan to overhaul world standards/enforcement/liability/skilled trades/professional ethics? Hell of a topic to have mastered. Master control Gubment panacea? Better economics, perfection of purpose or other aspects that also trade off against each other? Or litigation panacea? Or bureaucracy panacea? Or training/certification panacea?

Theres no simple answer IMO. Better is a simplistic word to use alone.

In the scheme of industry a couple hundred$ is a token fee, almost a courtesy.

 

[Matias]

What exactly is your plan to overhaul world standards/enforcement/liability/skilled trades/professional ethics? Hell of a topic to have mastered. Master control Gubment panacea? Better economics, perfection of purpose or other aspects that also trade off against each other? Or litigation panacea? Or bureaucracy panacea? Or training/certification panacea?

Theres no simple answer IMO. Better is a simplistic word to use alone.

In the scheme of industry a couple hundred$ is a token fee, almost a courtesy.

Your blanket dismissal is equally simplistic. How about a sliding scale? It could be based on anything that lets small operations pay less than big ones. If you like the system as is, that's fine, but accusing me of being a simpleton for pointing out flaws is ignorant. You seem to understand a number of ways that things could be improved. Saying thay any one idea will be the panacea is simplistic.

 

[Phil]

Today I learned the word "panacea".

 

[Bart_]

Apologies for coming off grumpy. I realized my mood and tone later with a smidge of regret. But I stand behind delving into that world to inform any views developed. Picture yourself in those guys shoes and then be thankful you're not. Balancing conflicting objectives should not be interpreted as flaws/absolutes or right/wrong it's all grey scale. You're entitled to point out imbalances as judged by your expertise in the field and I encourage you to participate in the standards system as it always evolves from input.