22 year old died in Florida yesterday.

[Shadowscape]

I don't have any problem watching it. If some think it is terrible, fine. That is their thoughts and I respect that, but don't push your thought on me and tell me I need to be like you, because I am not, and I disagree with your views. Don't try and mold me to be a person that thinks like you. If you want to live in a la la land of, everything needs to be flowers and roses, go right ahead, but I don't live in that world. And don't you dare tell me to stop. Who the fuck told you, you need to police the rest of us? Piss off and go play with whatever it is you play with when you are not playing mother to the rest of us.
And for once, and only once, I agree with Daniel. Some of us would like to learn something from this tragedy. This is not Facebook or TikTok, this is an arb site. Spew you video over on Facebook. Posting it here is like me posting on your training videos for the fire department saying you shouldn't see a film of a building collapse because their are bodies in it.
Don't want to watch, fine. Don't tell us we shouldn't be watching just because you don't want to. Your video pisses me off more than the accident video pisses you off, let me tell you.

 

[Daniel]

This video holds NONE of the qualities of a video you can use to learn great lessons from. This video is of no benefit to watch unless you just wanna see a traumatic death.

How can you make that call? And are you sure? Can you be 100% sure that's correct? We all have our own perspectives Steve. You've got yours and it sounds like you got some serious PTSD running bro. You're wearing it like a coat.

God bless you for doing a job that very few have the stomach for. The things you have done, I would and could never do. I can't even give blood. The only time I tried, I almost passed out. The nurse took a look at my face and suggested stopping the draw.

But you can't say that no one can learn or be positively effected from that video. That video could save 10 lives.. maybe nothing for you to learn, after 25 years in the business. But some rookie might see it and think twice before taking a top with a questionable lean, that he's not sure about, or throw a pull line in a wonky top, or decide to come back on a less windy day etc.

That video could save 10 lives.... Maybe someone sees it and says, that's it... I'll find some other way of making a living. And that's what saves his life.

10 years ago I put up a video of someone getting electrocuted on the ground in Brazil. The guy sparked, clenched up, keeled over, and died right there. I used to watch that 10 seconds clip over and over... My roomate at the time accused me of being morbid.... Fuck that... That video keeps me on my toes... When I get around those wires I want to remember just how unforgiving they are... I watched that guy die over and over and over again, so I won't.

 

[Shadowscape]

This video is of no benefit to watch unless you just wanna see a traumatic death.

So you watched it. Or are you just guessing at what it was? No, you watched it. And now you are harping on others who watch it. Change your name to Steve Trump. Be more fitting.
And you will no doubt go watch a John Wick movie where he shoots 150 people in the head for entertainment.
Piss off.

 

[27RMT0N]

This is a valuable discussion to have, but let's not get so personal guys. It's not us against each other, it's us against accidents.

 

[rico]

So what exactly have you folks learned from watching this video?

 

[Daniel]

So you watched it. Or are you just guessing at what it was? No, you watched it. And now you are harping on others who watch it. Change your name to Steve Trump. Be more fitting.
And you will no doubt go watch a John Wick movie where he shoots 150 people in the head for entertainment.
Piss off.

Take it easy.. we can beat each other up some other place... out of respect for the dead... and each other, because we're all going to get there.

 

[Daniel]

So what exactly have you folks learned from watching this video?

That you can't easily upright an inverted hanging body.
Aerial rescue should be practiced on inverted dummies.

I lost my first top straight back from the intended lay, a couple years ago.... I kicked myself for such stupidity. Amazed that I would have ever taken that chance with no backup plan.... easily could have died... After 40 years I should have known better, but even then I made the mistake.... How much more would a rookie be inclined to make that mistake?

So maybe a better question to ask is what can ANYONE learn from this video.

 

[Shadowscape]

The last year I worked as a coroner I handled 740 unnatural deaths. I have had more than my fill of dead bodies. I didn't watch this video out of "Morbid Curiosity" that I am being accused of. And I have watched it a dozen or more times now, and. will probably watch it a few more because I want to learn what exactly went wrong and why.
Mr. goody two shoes can kiss my ass and go be a kindergarten mother someplace else.

@rico I have learned that the landscape company, or whoever the company was didn't know anything about doing tree work properly, and safely. There obviously was no training for tree work involved.
More importantly, I learned that I need to be more careful when topping a tree that has limbs that could catch me should a gust of wind unexpectedly swing it in a direction, I had not intended it to go. I have a tendency to be aware that it could come my way if a gust hits it at the last minute and what my plan is for moving out of the way, or if it is small, flipping it over my shoulder, but I have not given thought to getting my neck wedged in a crotch. I will now have that in mind, thanks to having watched this video.
And for god sakes, don't let Daniel cut the tree down should that happen to me. Make a training exercise video of aerial rescue instead. Then watch it! I don't mind if you see my lifeless body dangling, and my children would understand.

 

[Daniel]

The thought of trying to fall the tree is just way too much. The suggestion is horrible. The mere suggestion of falling the tree onto a roof while the guy has something stuck on his body is murder. Trust me I can understand last ditch efforts, and damned if you do/damned if you don’t.

How long is he going to last with a 500 lb limb hanging on his neck, while he's suspended upside down?

There would be no way to get a lift or climber to him before he'd be dead... Even if a good climber had a rescue bag at the base of the tree, or therer was a bucket truck on site, he would be dead before ANYBODY could get to him. As risky and dangerous as falling that tree sounds, that 100% was his only chance for survival.

HE HUNG THERE FOR TWO HOURS..... WTF.... if he wasn't killed on impact as he well might have been, he's got 3-5 minutes max.. It's just common sense... dropping that tree was his only chance....

 

[evo]

I totally disagree with the benefit of watching this particular video. I am gonna go out on a limb here and say I'm thinking I've probably seen more death and destruction than probably anyone other than some of the combat medics on this forum. I have also taught Paramedicine and other EMS topics for many many years and used videos in a training environment. This video holds NONE of the qualities of a video you can use to learn great lessons from. Its a lifeless rag doll being thrashed around. If thats what you need to watch to have respect for this job when you lie your head down to sleep, next I'll hear we need to watch a human body get chipped or a leg ripped off by a stump grinder to have respect for the machine. I don't but it for a minute. But thats me and you're you. I lived that for half my life so I'll respectfully and passionately disagree. This video is of no benefit to watch unless you just wanna see a traumatic death.

Just for clarity I haven’t watched the video, so when I said IF it was me saying I don’t know if there is a lesson. I was just thinking if there could be a lesson, that might be a situation where it could be applicable. My hats off to you, that is a lot to experience.. More than we are made for

 

[ClimberClyde]

My big take away from this is that there needs to be more regulation for our industry. This simply should NOT have happened. The fact we're seeing a video of a guy, in the US nonetheless, dying doing his job is a failure at the highest level.

No one should be able to buy gear, start an LLC, watch YouTube videos, and be able to do this work. Clearly people get injured and die because anyone can do this. It should be drastically more difficult to do tree care, we should be required to have credentialed & trained people to be on site for every job. There should be FAT fines and punishments (loss of license, etc.) For those that don't follow the rules. Every tree care business should have licensed, professional arborists leading the company.

I would love to hear what else could be done on a large scale that prevents this in the future. Seriously, what needs to happen? It can't be left up to individuals, this is the outcome.

I know it's a pipe dream it seems, but ironworkers don't free-ball it on skyscrapers like in the old days. It seems like every other trade has countless requirements that are STRICTLY enforced. But here we are, seeing a video of an incident that is 100% preventable had there been checks and measures in place to prevent this.

I would love to have this industry be taken seriously by everyone, but until stricter regulations are put in place there will be more videos like this, and we'll continue to be seen as glorified landscapers.

Also please don't cut my tree down, let me die the way I lived.

 

[Mick Dempsey]

The more regulations thing get bandied about a lot.
I’m definitely against it.
Where do you draw the line?
You can change the brakes on your own car which has the potential to kill multiple people if you get it wrong, but not cut a branch off a tree?
As for being taken seriously and not been seen as glorified landscapers, so what? What do I care? I get paid well for my work, that’s enough for me, if you crave respect for your work then become a nurse or policeman.

 

[Matias]

I am SOOOOO with you @Mick Dempsey , but turn that back around; where do we draw the line? Why have any rules at all? Should all taxes be voluntary? Nobody wishes more than me that people could be expected to not suck, bit a lot of them do. What I want to debate is what we do to fairly discourage people from acting against their own best interests?

 

[Shadowscape]

There is a difference between cutting your own limb and running a business of cutting other people's limbs. Changing your own brakes and being in the business of changing other people's brakes. With any business there comes a responsibility of knowledge and safety to protect the employees and customers from injury or damage.
I'm not for overregulating, but if you are going to run a business where people can be injured or killed by what you are asking them to do, then some regulations need to be in place to protect those individuals. Training and the use of proper equipment to keep those individuals safe needs to be a must. It is obvious in this video the company provided none of the above.

"if you crave respect for your work then become a nurse or policeman" Sorry my friend, those days are over it seems. At least here in the States.

 

[Mick Dempsey]

I am SOOOOO with you @Mick Dempsey , but turn that back around; where do we draw the line? Why have any rules at all? Should all taxes be voluntary? Nobody wishes more than me that people could be expected to not suck, bit a lot of them do. What I want to debate is what we do to fairly discourage people from acting against their own best interests?

Well, that broadens the debate a bit!
I have to build a new body on my chip truck with my brother today so I’ll have to come back to this.

 

[Mick Dempsey]

There is a difference between cutting your own limb and running a business of cutting other people's limbs. Changing your own brakes and being in the business of changing other people's brakes. With any business there comes a responsibility of knowledge and safety to protect the employees and customers from injury or damage.
I'm not for overregulating, but if you are going to run a business where people can be injured or killed by what you are asking them to do, then some regulations need to be in place to protect those individuals. Training and the use of proper equipment to keep those individuals safe needs to be a must. It is obvious in this video the company provided none of the above.

The employer will certainly be prosecuted will he not? Where was this accident?
Is there any difference between this accident and any other work place fatality?
Wouldn’t OSHA (is that right?) be all over this?

 

[Shadowscape]

The employer will certainly be prosecuted will he not? Where was this accident?
Is there any difference between this accident and any other work place fatality?
Wouldn’t OSHA (is that right?) be all over this?

I believe it was in Florida. And yes, OSHA will be all over it. There will no doubt be a wrongful death lawsuit before the smoke clears, and heavy fines that may put the company out of business if it is not owned by some larger corporation.

 

[Matias]

Heavy fines don't bring that momma back her son, but if a regulator has to supervise every job, it becomes increasingly difficult for anyone to afford good tree work. Back and forth, til people's shittiness overwhelms the system du jour, and we kick ourselves back down the mountain a ways.

 

[Shadowscape]

You don't be an airline pilot without the proper training. You don't just go be a doctor because you want to. And you shouldn't be allowed to do tree work without being trained.
A landscaping company that tells a worker to put down the weed whacker and go up that tree and prune branches without giving the worker the training and proper gear is not alright by any stretch of the imagination.
We don't have regulators watching every pilot get on a plane or every doctor in a hospital, so that need not be the case.
OSHA has standards for most businesses to protect workers. Everything from not allowing two pronged plugs on the refrigerator in company cafeteria. But with all the little things they pick on, and all the business they regulate, there is currently nothing that covers tree workers. Nada.
There are regulations for landscapers however. Go figure. And they cover tree work for landscapers. Want to know the OSHA regs for tree work for landscapers? Here is the regulations in their entirety"

tree trimming​

The main hazards when working with trees are falling, contact with exposed power lines and branches or tools dropping on a worker below. Employees must wear hard hats at all times to protect their heads from falling objects. Workers should stay at least 10 feet away from overhead power lines. If an employee is required to use a chainsaw, he must thoroughly inspect it before beginning work. Chainsaws should also be inspected and maintained periodically between work shifts and all defective parts replaced before any employee is allowed to use the saw again.

That's it! With those regs followed a landscaper can send a weed whacker aloft and have him/her top a tree. And that is a crappy way of regulating the industry.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

posted this today on social media because it spun me up so much.

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i eventually had to go back and watch before page_3; to weigh for self; and don't do social media. Reading/hearing now about this stuff going online makes it even less likely will find time for social media. Not against it necessarily...
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i think Steve speaks more royally/loyally of taking someone under your wing, rather than smashing/bashing them. Some hollow people inherently know they can only feel robust large by making others seem less by comparison; it is not like they can expand their own selves to feel as well. Kinda like an unproductive thief, whose only harvest/displacement is from someone else, not their own works.
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Seems not much for us here to l-earn here; but rather show others: don't be this guy. Same vid shows story of someone trying to be a hero for the other guy. But errantly so, as 1st rule is not to add to the victim stack are trying to reduce. He was full bull up there in it anyway, at risk, superman task, moving clean, making it happen as much as tools would allow. Lotsa respect on that aspect; no matter what he's doing.
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Kennedy's and cops etc. share Steve's concerns, am sure!
Nephew is a SEAL, always put out thar to people you don't ask dark side questions, but rather how many saved, IF ANYTHING. Freshness of question kinda catches some of'em off balance, when kidding around a bit..
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Vid is good for convincing another person not to do this, how not to rescue; and showing to legislature etc.
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quote from link:
The best way I heard it summarized, “safety rules are written in blood”.
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Peace