We really must stop meeting like this! The relationship between the termination knot and the hitch.

[Matias]

I have taught that setup to guys who had no other gear to show them something that might serve them as a means of practicing the fundamentals.

 

[evo]

Damn, nobody told me I couldnt use a termination knot with my hitch climber setup because that’s just what I do on an almost daily basis. Hell, someone should probably notify the thousands of climbers that do the same.

I actually think it’s in the manual.

 

[rico]

No, but it's still very functional and exactly what I learned to climb on when I was just starting.

Edit: I didn't have a fancy spliced rope, or spliced eye-to-eye though!

And a taut line hitch was very functional when I was coming up, but neither system does what a hitch climber does which is to use the termination end of your rope to pull your system (pulley & hitch) up the rope. A complete game changer which is negated if you don’t terminate back to the HC pulley, as Patrick suggested.

 

[Zebco Kid]

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for your generous contribution of thoughts in response to my inquiry.

Rico...I have not had the problem, but like Bendroctanus, I have found myself tending to the hitch on every sitback, ensuring that there isn't a conflict. I suppose that's ok..but I definitely feel like I'm doing it out of concern versus a technique.

In my original post, I had asked whether a figure 8 knot further up the line (away from the hitch) would solve the conflict. Nobody responded to that inquiry. Does that make no sense? Is a figure 8 no considered an appropriate life safety knot for our purposes and application?

Thank you.

David

 

[Shadowscape]

Terminating back to your bridge or other piece of equipment simulates a MRS but does nothing to move the hitch. It then becomes your body motion that drags the hitch upward, negating the purpose of the Hitchclimber system.
I have never experienced a problem with a termination knot at a Hitchclimber pulley interfering with its function or the function of a hitch cord. I think it is one of those things people think might happen because they have heard it spoken about so many times by people who assume without having actually witnessed it. It should be classified as an urban legion.
Figure 8 is a great knot for use with this system. A long bite on it is just fine and should remove any worry you might have. Just don't make it so long you can't reach your TIP.

 

[DSMc]

... In my original post, I had asked whether a figure 8 knot further up the line (away from the hitch) would solve the conflict...

Yes it would solve the problem, whether real or imagined. However, an MRS termination carabiner should be captured by the rope so it does not allow misalignment or cross loading. So an open loop by itself is an inadequate choice. You could band the end, making it a tight eye, but that is not a fluid/ quickly changeable setup.

 

[Zebco Kid]

Understood. Thank you.

David

 

[flyingmosstreen]

If you really wanted, you could do something similar to what @treebing Bingham did with his rope runner pro in a moving rope setup. It would get the knot up a ways from the prusik. He posted some pictures in an earlier thread…

But who am I

 

[rico]

Try changing your cordage length and/or your hitch. I run a 4 wrap Michoacán with a 24“ cord and have no problem with termination knots.

 

[Matias]

Try changing your cordage length and/or your hitch. I run a 4 wrap Michoacán with a 24“ cord and have no problem with termination knots.

I have run a DF termination with various hitches. Only ever had issues with VT, which I still love, lean on it less.

 

[chris_girard]

Paul Cox used to terminate the HH when DdRT/ MRS by tying into the bridge ring that has the HH carabiner with a termination knot that doesn't conflict.

Yeah, but he almost died that way too when his termination knot pulled through the bridge ring while he was doing crane work.

Definitely have to be careful in choosing your termination knots and using rings.

 

[Matias]

Yeah, but he almost died that way too when his termination knot pulled through the bridge ring while he was doing crane work.

Definitely have to be careful in choosing your termination knots and using rings.

Yeah, I have sucked half an alpine butterfly through a biggish ring. I think it was a 40mm. It was a mother fucker to get out.

 

[evo]

@Zebco Kid
Sure you could do a fig 8 but as others have said using a Carabiner you need something that captures it and doesnt allow for rotation to minimize cross loads. This can be easy to girth hitch the carabiner in the long eye of the fig8. Old school blakes/taughtline split tails had a long eye splice for this purpose. Could use a rope snap in place of a carabiner too, for that real oldschool feel (not sure if its legit for a climbing line these days).

OR

A simple 0 rig setup... Tie your hitch with the HH. Take the tail through the bridge ring and tie a clove hitch with about 24" of tail. Now tie a grape vine and snap the HH to it. Dress everything and you can adjust the clove in or out to get the sweet spot for the HH. To get it to self tend, you can take some micro 3mm cord and make a prussic loop (a boot lace works, or para cord), or I've just tied a alpine. Lots of ways to skin a cat without making orders.

 

[evo]

Yeah, but he almost died that way too when his termination knot pulled through the bridge ring while he was doing crane work.

Definitely have to be careful in choosing your termination knots and using rings.

Wha? Basically knot blocking the bridge ring? I can't see why anyone would want to do that!

 

[chris_girard]

Yeah, Paul could shed more light on his accident.

 

[rico]

I re

Yeah, Paul could shed more light on his accident.

I remember reading about this incident over at Treehouse. Sounds like Paul was fairly lucky in that there wasn’t a worse outcome. Paul is tough as nails, an all around good guy, and invented the freakin HH. A legend in my book..

 

[southsoundtree]

It isn't a blocker knot jamming into the ring. Its a secure knot on the ring.

I believe it was an operator error, not knot failure issue.

 

[chris_girard]

I remember reading about this incident over at Treehouse. Sounds like Paul was fairly lucky in that there wasn’t a worse outcome. Paul is tough as nails, an all around good guy, and invented the freakin HH. A legend in my book..

Agreed Rico, and proud to call him a friend of mine. Just chatted with him yesterday. He's doing well.

 

[southsoundtree]

I MRS'ed out today.

I could have flipped my HH biner over, for less conflict. It wasn't an issue when the 2 sides of the system were on my bridge at outward angles, however, as I descended, the ring and termination biner came together. As I descended more, they conflicted more. A big-hole bowline (tied off) on the ring would have worked a treat.


I was using @DSMc 'S Fixe pulley on DMM bridge ring add-on.

 

[rico]

You would be hard pressed to find 2 men who know more about the HH than @DSMc and @Richard Mumford-yoyoman, and we should count ourselves lucky to have them here at the Buzz.