alternating between SRT and DdRT

[evo]

I'm glad you feel so confident on floating false crotches, I do too (well use to).. Personally I dont like having a pulley at a TIP, its a little over kill with lack of friction. A one way pulley might solve that, but there is something to be said for "If its not broken, don't fix it"... I still like my systems simple and KISS
To each their own.
The only thing I see horribly wrong in your photos and words is knot blocking the pulley. I'm certain you could never use that in a comp, nor get Petzl to sign off on it.. Think of all the numbskulls out there who might see this and think its kosher... It's one thing to have a conversation about it, but another to advocate for its use.
KISS and don't die... Listen or not, I would be surprised if you can get any credible climbers to back you up on this.

 

[rico]

You need to know what you can do and what you can't do. You need the ability and experience to read a situation.

if you don't like knot blocking, then just don't do it. IDGAS. I showed you three other basic ways to make the rope static and immediately revert back to moving rope. Doable with literally no extra gear.

My apologize, but I have very little experience and even less ability..And don't even get me started on knowing what I can and cannot do?

 

[snunyabizness]

how do you use two foot ascenders? and why do you dislike knee ascenders?

I tie a midline knot and lock it with a carabiner before pulling up the floating block,. that gives two static lines to climb, one for each foot ascender. Place your device on either leg. Once you reach height, untied the midline knot, pull up the working end, and switch to DdRT

 

[snunyabizness]

Lol. I've got my old knee ascender from the mid 80's in the basement.

knee ascenders are a hack

 

[data farm 26]

Don't make no sense to me, guess I shoulda stayed in school... this shit is confusing.

 

[data farm 26]

The rope wrench sucks for moving rope because it was literally invented to enable climbers to work on a stationary rope using a typical climbing hitch. If you want to switch to mrt just take the wrench off the damn rope. Likewise I'm pretty sure the bdb was created primarily with srt in mind, personally I think it less than ideal for mrt. Could be wrong I have taken a few shots to the head over the years.

 

[Dan Cobb]

knee ascenders are a hack

Not exactly sure what that means, but I'll counter with "alternating between SRT and DdRT" is a hack.

 

[snunyabizness]

The rope wrench sucks for moving rope because it was literally invented to enable climbers to work on a stationary rope using a typical climbing hitch. If you want to switch to mrt just take the wrench off the damn rope. Likewise I'm pretty sure the bdb was created primarily with srt in mind, personally I think it less than ideal for mrt. Could be wrong I have taken a few shots to the head over the years.

rest assured the BDB works great w/ MRT

 

[data farm 26]

Not for me, like I said I think it's less than ideal. I'd rather just use a VT and hitch climber pulley, easy. Or a uni, that's a much better mechanical for switching between styles, imo.

 

[evo]

The rope wrench sucks for moving rope because it was literally invented to enable climbers to work on a stationary rope using a typical climbing hitch. If you want to switch to mrt just take the wrench off the damn rope. Likewise I'm pretty sure the bdb was created primarily with srt in mind, personally I think it less than ideal for mrt. Could be wrong I have taken a few shots to the head over the years.

'Enable Wrench' would make a rad post punk band name... It's actually pretty deep man.

 

[Friedrich]

I tie a midline knot and lock it with a carabiner before pulling up the floating block,. that gives two static lines to climb, one for each foot ascender. Place your device on either leg. Once you reach height, untied the midline knot, pull up the working end, and switch to DdRT

yes, that will work for initial ascend but will be cumbersome/not possible while working away from your access line, or am i missing something.

i use my knee ascender all the time.

it seems to me that your overcomplicating things.

 

[snunyabizness]

this technique for a fully retrievable configuration. MRS line from above left. Run the tail of the MRS down to your destination, then terminate it using the "beasthorn srt redirect". When you later pull on the tail, it will release the knot. Now you are on SRT. Setup your next redirect again using the beasthorn. Work that zone of the canopy. Descend down to your destination point and pull it all back out to yourself. Clip in and you're back in MRS moda again.

 

[snunyabizness]

On another note - anybody have any comment on the rope wear you (might) get with this thing. Our rule was always smooth is more betterer. Just wondering this AM, esp about loaded up in a rigging scenario.

the friction is about equal to around the horns on the portawrap. you're not going to be doing any heavy rigging on this device. If you get into some heavy rigging scenarios, you'll want to setup something more robust. So considering the weights you'll be rigging off it, you'll not see any detectable rope wear. The pulley grooves are kinda smooth really. It will be better on the rope than natural crotching

 

[snunyabizness]

A knee ascender is one great innovation. Smooth ascents in a timely fashion.... eady on easy off.....

I have a HAAS and use it heavily. I don't like wearing it.

 

[snunyabizness]

Don't make no sense to me, guess I shoulda stayed in school... this shit is confusing.

sorry man. I didn't maybe give enough context. I like to climb DdRT when I can, but I also do a lot of SRT climbing as well. These are just some ways that you can blend the two. For example, you're climbing around in a tree MRS and decide you'd like to redirect and work a zone SRT. So you anchor and redirect and now you're working SRT. After you're done with that, you clip back in and now back to working MRS mode again.

 

[snunyabizness]

yes, that will work for initial ascend but will be cumbersome/not possible while working away from your access line, or am i missing something.

i use my knee ascender all the time.

it seems to me that your overcomplicating things.

I use a knee ascender regularly too but I don't prefer it. But some trees call for it and I wear the knee ascender the whole time. But sometimes I just need to climb 50' and then I can switch to DdRT. So I put on two foot ascenders, tie a midline knot in my moving rope, and pull up a floating block. Then I climb up both static legs. When I reach height, I untie the midline knot and then switch to DdRT. Absolutely completely only for initial descent.

 

[Reach]

this technique for a fully retrievable configuration. MRS line from above left. Run the tail of the MRS down to your destination, then terminate it using the "beasthorn srt redirect". When you later pull on the tail, it will release the knot. Now you are on SRT. Setup your next redirect again using the beasthorn. Work that zone of the canopy. Descend down to your destination point and pull it all back out to yourself. Clip in and you're back in MRS moda again.


View attachment 86076

I see a potential big problem here, with the way the tail of your rope goes up from the Akimbo, through a carabiner, and then back down. Some SRT devices can collapse when the rope is run like this, and cause an uncontrollable descent. I am not sure if the Akimbo is one of those, but I am sure I would not try to find out in this way.

This all seems like a great big complication for no real purpose.

 

[snunyabizness]

yes, that will work for initial ascend but will be cumbersome/not possible while working away from your access line, or am i missing something.

i use my knee ascender all the time.

it seems to me that your overcomplicating things.

imagine another option would be to tie the midline knot and pull up two static lines on your floating block. Do the entire climb SRT with the two static lines. Not something I've done.

If you like the knee ascender, just wear it and use it when you switch to SRT off a redirect.

 

[snunyabizness]

I see a potential big problem here, with the way the tail of your rope goes up from the Akimbo, through a carabiner, and then back down. Some SRT devices can collapse when the rope is run like this, and cause an uncontrollable descent. I am not sure if the Akimbo is one of those, but I am sure I would not try to find out in this way.

This all seems like a great big complication for no real purpose.

you could use any retrievable redirect you want to. There are many. I like the beasthorn because it requires nothing more than your rope. the tail has no climber weight on it, I just need to keep it with me so I can retrieve the knot remotely.

 

[snunyabizness]

This is not a "system"

These are just a few ways that you can integrate SRT into your DdRT session. It is implied that DdRT is always available within an SRT session or that techniques implemented like the SCAM give mechanical advantage on SRT. Realistically, DdRT is much easier on the body and lends itself to longevity for the climber, it is an elegant climbing style. But SRT is often appropriate and more effective for the situation, like open ascending or redirecting through a canopy.

You will need to go out and practice climb this stuff multiple times and experiment with it, then you'll find ways to integrate this into your production climbing at work.

questions:

if I'm climbing DdRT, can I use an SRT redirect? yes

why climb on a floating block/pulley? for removals, with spurs, this is nice, and conserves a lot of energy. for pruning, it saves the cambium and conserves a lot of energy. With a basal anchor, it is lowerable without the need to isolate.

do I need to use two foot ascenders all the time? no, you can do that for the 60' initial descent taking big steps, then switch to DdRT and forget you have them. You could also spike your line at any time creating two static legs and climb with both foot ascenders. But if you wanted to, you could SRT the whole time on the two static legs too. Or you could just use one foot ascender. Or/and you could use a knee ascender. Or you can climb pure basic SRT and pretend none of this exists.

do I have to risk my life using a knot block on a pulley? no, don't do that, esp because Evo will wet himself. It is nice for that final zing out of the tree though. But if you're climbing DdRT on a rigging ring or friction saver and want to switch, then tie a stopper with a long tail and run it up there, work your SRT thing, then pull it back and go back to DdRT again. Or spike your line with a midline knot, clip the tail and work SRT, then clip back in and reset. Or tie an alpine butterfly canopy anchor, run it up there and switch to SRT, return later and pull it down, clip in and get back to DdRT.

do I have to do everything you pictured, in sequence? no, pick any single thing you want whatever technique seems useful in order to integrate DdRT and SRT into a single climb and do whatever fits your need. I showed 5 things you can combine or use independently.

can I use any kind of SRT redirect variation I want to? yeah, there's probably 20 or more. do whatever fits your need.

can my anchor be remotely retrievable? yeah

do I need a pulley? do I need a floating block? no. you can do most of this stuff while natural crotching

is this a hack? hm. It's reusing various SRT and DdRT fundamental techniques in an incremental fashion in appropriate situations to enable climbing in a way that best suits the situation regardless of what "system" you're "using". Think modular.

do I need to rec climb practice this stuff to get any practical use out of it? yeah

do I really need to know any of this to do my job? nah man, you're good.