alternating between SRT and DdRT

S

snunyabizness

New member
Location
portland, oregon
Been regularly climbing on the Petzl Spin ever since seeing Dan Holiday explain it on climbing arborist
and it has encouraged some creative adaptations I'd like to share.

I equally love climbing SRT and DdRT. I can't decide between them, so use both. I can't be bothered to isolate my TIP so usually doing basal anchors. Since I've got the Spin, I've been climbing on a floating block basically. The simplicity of DdRT rules. But SRT rules. Knee ascenders suck, they suck so much. The versatility of SRT redirects is amazing, but then again DdRT on the Petzl Spin is a game changer and my aging shoulders appreciate the double roping. Oh, and I have two foot ascenders.. so you see where this is going...

Attached are a few pics showing some things I've been doing while climbing on the Petzl Spin and alternating between SRT and DdRT in the canopy throughout a climb. You could actually swap out the Spin for a pulley, or a rigging ring, or a carabiner (setup a floating block). Being able to climb DdRT but then also immediately having access to an SRT redirect is powerful. Obviously you will need a proper multiscender (multicender?) to SRT. Note, the rope wrench is crap for DdRT. And it's really nice having two independent foot ascenders and taking huge steps on the ascent. Setup time is negligible after some practice. If you're clever, you can even switch between SRT and DdRT while being 100% secure on the climb line at all times. You can get creative leaving your tail around the canopy or finding ways to keep it with you.

Btw, the bulldog bone is kinda the best device on the market to date. Consistent always and impervious to sap. It comes alive on Yale blaze 11.0mm. You know a device is good when you forget about it immediately after climbing.

And the Petzl Spin is rad. I want a second one spray painted orange and dedicated for rigging. Friction in the canopy is awesome. Either the climber or groundee can run it. I've seen the Spin will easily handle 200+lbs limbs with no portawrap, which is well within 75% of my pruning work working for a high production employer.

Haven't read about folks doing this SRT&DdRT intermixing beyond typical "ascend SRT and work DdRT". Hopefully this sparks some discussion and stokes some climbers to expand the toolbox.


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I like the separation that the Rook device creates for the down line while uses the Bone MRT. A small length of accessory prussic attached between the Bone tending ring and the down line makes it self tending if you so desire.
 
Tuebor said:
What are you using for your bridge? Beeline?
Click to expand...

from my Zillon lanyard. I don't know what brand of rope it is, guessing it was exclusive for Petzl to use in their lanyards. It's quite bulky, maybe 12-13mm 16 strand, nice for the bridge.

The Zillon is butter, but it's sketchy for a lanyard IMO. I didn't care for the surprise releases just from simply bumping it with my elbow or leaning onto a limb. I leave it on a 75' rope and use it like a zigzag.
 
snunyabizness said:
why would you say that?

the stopper knot even goes to the side pushing the triple action side plate in the closed direction.

www.petzl.com

SPIN L1D - Pulleys | Petzl USA

Petzl USA. Very high efficiency single pulley with one-way rotation and swivel
www.petzl.com www.petzl.com
Click to expand...
Knot blocking a pulley at best is poor form. Any pulleys weak link is the side plates and they are not designed to have the side plates leveraged apart.
I do NOT advocate for knot blocking a pulley. However it’s PROBALY alright with body weight loads. I’ve never held this pulley in my hands but I assume it’s similar (inspired/ripped off) from a rock exotica style. I would never knot block my RE pulley.
Just because it might be load bearing enough doesn’t make it right. Think of the clown that sees this and then thinks it is standard, causing issues later on. Not worth it for that reason alone
 
evo said:
Knot blocking a pulley at best is poor form. Any pulleys weak link is the side plates and they are not designed to have the side plates leveraged apart.
I do NOT advocate for knot blocking a pulley. However it’s PROBALY alright with body weight loads. I’ve never held this pulley in my hands but I assume it’s similar (inspired/ripped off) from a rock exotica style. I would never knot block my RE pulley.
Just because it might be load bearing enough doesn’t make it right. Think of the clown that sees this and then thinks it is standard, causing issues later on. Not worth it for that reason alone
Click to expand...

I probably wouldn't knot block on your omniblock either lol.

The Spin is slotted though, different design. I'm telling you guys it's a cool gadget.

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The idea of DRT on a one way pulley has been floated before, but the issue of the device being life rated was an issue. I tried to find Petzl condoning this use but the best I could come up with was NFPA rating and personal safety equipment use. To me the button side plate retention would rate about the same as climbing DRT off a biner with triple acting gate. I wouldn't do it except as a redirect. Neat to see them show F = 1.05xM i.e. the tension ratio in the spec sheet but they left out the lowering tension ratio. Kind of optimistic IMO because the serrated tooth groove arrangement on a power ascender definitely adds more friction during freewheeling and a regular pulley is already usually around 1.1 on a good day. Another issue is being remote you can't see perfectly if you inadvertently side bending load the swivel mechanism. The data sheet of course shows this side loading warning.

If someone came to market with a non-swivel, no opening side plate DdRT TIP ratcheting pulley I'd reconsider. Nice video nonetheless.

Used to be in climbing comps that a pulley hauled up to the TIP on a base tied rope with a DRT system through it was called a Secret Weapon IIRC.
 
Bart_ said:
Used to be in climbing comps that a pulley hauled up to the TIP on a base tied rope with a DRT system through it was called a Secret Weapon IIRC.
Click to expand...
We always called that a false crotch. Static line that pulled up a double rope system. Pulley or opposite and opposed binders etc..

Secret weapon is an eye to eye hitch cord with a small ring on one eye, and a pulley carabiner on the other (or just locking, or a large ring). One could set a ddrt system off an access srt line, then retrieve their ddrt and rings cleaning the line while resetting their system.

Similar ideas..
 
evo said:
We always called that a false crotch. Static line that pulled up a double rope system. Pulley or opposite and opposed binders etc..

Secret weapon is an eye to eye hitch cord with a small ring on one eye, and a pulley carabiner on the other (or just locking, or a large ring). One could set a ddrt system off an access srt line, then retrieve their ddrt and rings cleaning the line while resetting their system.

Similar ideas..
Click to expand...

A floating false crotch with a static line that holds a DRT set is how I sometimes use it, but only to assist me when I am spurring/flipping up a large shaggy barked tree. In this scenario I am ALWAYS flipped in and/or tied in, and the false crotch is used as a belay system to bring a little physical and mental relief during my initial assent. IT IS NOT TO BE USED AS A PRIMARY LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM. FUCK THAT! The thought of using the OP's floating false crotch, knot blocker setup for SRT assent/work scares the treebejeezus out of me...
 
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rico said:
A floating false crotch with a static line that holds a DRT set is how I sometimes use it, but only to assist me when I am spurring/flipping up a large shaggy barked tree. In this scenario I am ALWAYS flipped in and/or tied in, and the false crotch is used as a belay system to bring a little physical and mental relief during my initial assent. IT IS NOT TO BE USED AS A PRIMARY LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM. FUCK THAT! The thought of using the OP's floating false crotch, knot blocker setup for SRT assent/work scares the treebejeezus out of me...
Click to expand...
You are not comfortable climbing on a floating block. That's ok.

I've done dead hazardous failed removals using floating blocks strung between very tall firs hundreds of feet apart and tightened via grcs. I've installed a floating block on a bucket truck to descend down into tight places. I install floating blocks so I can double rope without isolating a limb. You need to know what you can do and what you can't do. You need the ability and experience to read a situation.

if you don't like knot blocking, then just don't do it. IDGAS. I showed you three other basic ways to make the rope static and immediately revert back to moving rope. Doable with literally no extra gear.

Having two foot ascenders is great. Having a virtual TIP opens up all kinds of options. Working a tree DdRT and simultaneously using SRT redirects is powerful.. definitely worth sharing with the community. Again I haven't seen discussion about this (and TRT is an entirely different beast).

I've had a very positive first hand experience climbing on this pulley the past 6 months and am stoked to share that. It's got some cool functionality. It inspired me. I think it is a quality product. If you're not into it, who cares..

I hope the takeaway from my thread is that the parameters of SRT and DdRT are arbitrary and you don't have to choose one only.
 
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