Product Recall DMM Compact Swivel Units

Aerial Traveler said:
This pattern of failure is not inspiring confidence in DMM swivel hardware. Very concerning. I think this information is going to influence my future hardware purchases.
Click to expand...
I pulled the Nexus off my bridge and replaced it with an Axis I had laying around. But I'm staring at that thing with doubts as well.

Meanwhile, I have two Nexus, two Directors, and one Focus out of commission, plus a couple of spare shackles rendered useless.

Are these used as part of a primary life support system in any other industries? Work at height, spelunking, wilderness rescue?
 
Sooo, I just did the DMM form, but ran into a issue.. Their form requires 10 characters and mine has 9 numbers with no letters. I lied to push the form through, and replied to the confirmation email with a explanation and a photo...
Anybody else have this issue?
 
No way in hell will I use a swivel for life support. Secondly, no way am I replacing my aluminuim life support for steel. A simple aluminium ring by DMM is strong and durable. Just inspect daily. Caribiners must also be checked and inspected daily. Sorry for all those with these swivels but DMM has handled things correctly and prompt. Just like they should. Proper company in my books. Oh yeah fuck K%$G.
 
Yah, I'd love to see an exploded diagram of how this swivel is put together and exactly what failed.

I don't think there is anything inherently problematic about swivels in general though as a concept, I mean just look at something like the Rock Exotica Omni-Block and how tough a life those live without any problem I've ever heard about...
 
Last edited:
Njdelaney said:
Res Any details on the design? Was it a drilled thru pin or just threaded in to hold pressure against the larger threads like a set screw?
Click to expand...
That’s what it looks like to me, in the picture of the broken carabiner the usual white plastic bump is a depression. It maybe got sucked in some when it broke. Maybe the larger size of the carabiners are causing some unwanted leverage, or the swivel is jamming up somehow?
 
In my book, swivels can be made safely - they're used in industrial crane work all the time. Just have to be rated for the load, WLL and safety factor obeyed and inspected just like other gear/ equipment. It's a matter of proper engineering in the design, just like life support tie points in plant structural design which up here require an engineer's stamp.
 
Aerial Traveler said:
DMM does mention 3 sigma on their website. I judge a company by the quality and reliability of their product not how they handle recalls or failures. Just because a car company is good at doing recalls or meets minimum safety standards doesn't make their product good or reliable. The product itself is the test and evidence for me.
View attachment 84510
Click to expand...

I validate your take on this and the way that others feel in the posts above about the process being important. We feel what we feel, when we feel it, and the way we feel might change either way. There is something to be said for getting these swivels right since that is what they *do*, professionally. Also, I feel like there is an undercurrent up until this particular post of "if we can't trust DMM, who *can* we trust, ergo we must trust them". We have this safety hierarchy of DMM/Rock Exotica/Petzl -> ISC -> everyone else, which is not really ...real. And - my impression is - DMM makes the prettiest devices as the earliest adapter of CNC tech. Implicitly, theirs is the way it should be done in the future, so we should buy in. I love the DMM aesthetic, and the idea that elevated form can lead to a similar elevation in function.

I'm conflicted about this. I really want to buy a DMM swivel biner for my bridge/Akimbo connection and use it at the upcoming Legends/Geezers comp in January, but not at this awkward moment. I want to know how the failure occurred, and I want to be able to understand exactly how these swivels might stay together, moving forward.
 
colb said:
...
I'm conflicted about this. I really want to buy a DMM swivel biner for my bridge/Akimbo connection and use it at the upcoming Legends/Geezers comp in January, but not at this awkward moment...
Click to expand...

Sorry, as this is a bit of a derail, but the Camp Gyro 3 works beautifully with the Akimbo and the small DMM carabiner. I don't have a picture of me using that particular combination, but I do use them together on a regular basis.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1661.JPG
    IMG_1661.JPG
    626.2 KB · Views: 26
When speaking with some from DMM, it was quite clear to me that they value reliability topmost. There are certain designs of products they refuse to adopt because of the inherent weaknesses.

Which of you has a flawless tree career? Undoubtedly you want to be remembered for how you handled a mistake, and seen for how you prevented it going forward.

The support for DMM isn’t selfishly motivated. Most of us are just happy to see a company bear the enormous expense in their commitment to customers. If you’ve used their products for any length of time, your honest evaluation would be that they make friggin bombproof gear. I’ve seen their blocks with 10 years in the field perform the same as a brand new one.

So many of us gripe about companies only chasing profits. A company with this good of a reputation could pass the blame for this failure, and a lot of people would trust them. However, DMM chose the costly route of doing the right thing, and some of us support that.

If some of you think an organization has to be perfect to have your trust, consider what that stance would do for your business if your clients adopt it.
 
Crimsonking said:
When speaking with some from DMM, it was quite clear to me that they value reliability topmost. There are certain designs of products they refuse to adopt because of the inherent weaknesses.

Which of you has a flawless tree career? Undoubtedly you want to be remembered for how you handled a mistake, and seen for how you prevented it going forward.

The support for DMM isn’t selfishly motivated. Most of us are just happy to see a company bear the enormous expense in their commitment to customers. If you’ve used their products for any length of time, your honest evaluation would be that they make friggin bombproof gear. I’ve seen their blocks with 10 years in the field perform the same as a brand new one.

So many of us gripe about companies only chasing profits. A company with this good of a reputation could pass the blame for this failure, and a lot of people would trust them. However, DMM chose the costly route of doing the right thing, and some of us support that.

If some of you think an organization has to be perfect to have your trust, consider what that stance would do for your business if your clients adopt it.
Click to expand...
I have to give a great big second to all of this. Also, I want to point out that DMM voluntarily recalled a full line of products after only one failure, rather than just calling it a fluke. That really says a lot to me. We will continue to buy DMM gear, and keep it as our first choice for rigging blocks, just how it’s been for years.
 
Crimsonking said:
When speaking with some from DMM, it was quite clear to me that they value reliability topmost. There are certain designs of products they refuse to adopt because of the inherent weaknesses.

Which of you has a flawless tree career? Undoubtedly you want to be remembered for how you handled a mistake, and seen for how you prevented it going forward.

The support for DMM isn’t selfishly motivated. Most of us are just happy to see a company bear the enormous expense in their commitment to customers. If you’ve used their products for any length of time, your honest evaluation would be that they make friggin bombproof gear. I’ve seen their blocks with 10 years in the field perform the same as a brand new one.

So many of us gripe about companies only chasing profits. A company with this good of a reputation could pass the blame for this failure, and a lot of people would trust them. However, DMM chose the costly route of doing the right thing, and some of us support that.

If some of you think an organization has to be perfect to have your trust, consider what that stance would do for your business if your clients adopt it.
Click to expand...

I don't want to be overly harsh on DMM, nor give them a free pass. I doubt they wish either of those circumstances themselves.

One difference between the work they and we do is that so much of the work they do is to prevent people from falling who would take grisly/deathly falls in more cases than not. There is usually no buffer between their gear and a fall. We, on the other hand, rarely have critical circumstances in our work where our normal work involves immediately preventing maiming or death. We typically have several preventive intermediate actions, leading to our worst day being "sh*t, I broke a sprinkler" rather than "sh*t, I hit that person with a branch", and that's because we set out cones, the client stayed away, their kids were at school, the climbing lines were packed up before the chipper ran, etc.. DMM's bad days are very different from ours.
 
Heard.

So how do you propose they prevent an incident like this, and change their testing to account for all possible failures in the future? How should they go about knowing all possible fail points before releasing a product? Should innovation stop for the sake of predictability?

At the end of the day, we’re human, they’re human. Yes, their mistakes could cost lives. Which car manufacturer has not had a safety recall? That’s a mistake that can kill, yet we still buy cars.

My reason for entering the conversation is because I don’t believe the emotion-led leaning is warranted, because it demands something super-human from humans, which is itself unjust.

All mistakes are costly in different ways. The unpopular truth in today’s world is you can’t prevent them all. That requires perfection, and point one person out who has achieved that. The best any of us can do is all we can to correct a mistake, and hope for the same from others. I’m grateful this failure didn’t cost anyone their life, and I’m grateful DMM is taking the initiative to not risk any other failure in a broad sweep of recalls.

This concludes what I can think of to say about the situation.
 
I have to agree with @Crimsonking and others. DMM is still in a tie with Rock in my mind for sexy and reliable. DMM's bad day worked out just like it should. The person with the failure was working within standard work practices and secured twice. The failure occurred when he weight tested his system. This is exactly why we do what we do. I promise you, had he not been tied in twice and had fallen and sustained significant injuries somebody would say it was DMM's fault he fell instead of, he shoulda been tied in twice and tested his system. How people choose to approach this situation is their personal choice. My opinion is if they replace my two swivels, I'll put them rite back where they were on my kit and not think twice about it. I love to see the reaction of the masses. Looks like those flocks of starlings you see or the bait fish the tuna are spooling. Not saying those folks don't have a rite to feel that way, I just look at it differently. We're not looking at a situation anything like the KONG issue years ago. I have heard DMM swivel users say on more than one occasion recently "I never really trusted that thing but I thought I was being stupid so I ignored it". I say if you don't trust it, don't use it. Personal choice. I'm all for your rite to not be confident in the kit. Not trying to preach to anybody. Just sharing my opinion.
 
Does anyone yet know if there were any warnings signs on the run-up to the failure? E.g., the gap between the two halves of the swivel growing larger, etc.?

Edit: I guess I know the answer to this already. Unknown, otherwise the users would have removed them from service immediately. I'm just highly interested in the mechanism of failure - did it unthread all the way to separation?

I loved having a swivel on my bridge; I don't have the rope/system management skills to keep things from getting majorly twisted when moving around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom