Do u have a better way to carry ur silky when u wear ur sour? This is how I do it

[RBJtree]

You are right and I usually am fine holding the saw when things go ka-sproing. A lot of the times I switch to the handsaw to finish cuts b/c I want to hold on to the skinny thing I'm on or my rope or push or pull. We have a 2hands policy for chainsaw cuts and I am usually good at making myself follow it.
It's not like flailing around a silky is safer than a ms200

Yea, I've had a decent silky cut. Also I don't have a 2 hand rule. There are some nice parts of self employment. I do think it is more dangerous to be flailing around with a 200 than a silky. I have a good strong non-breakaway saw lanyard so I can toss it if I really need to. I don't have a lanyard on my handsaw, so I can't toss it or it might hit a ground guy.

 

[*useless info*]

... Feel free to lecture others.

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i'm glad we have a relevant voice knowledge-able of formal standards evolution and parliament taking time for this round table when none of the other standing members speaks so openly thru the hails of negativity flowing back. Then so dutifully reports back to shirts and ties etc.; getting beat up from both sides. Then dedicated, passionate and hardy enough to continue this Tomfoolery for decades.
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If working with a tight line that can turn against ya; should have a quick release device/knife etc. Don't matter what or where you are doing. We have handsaw more than standard knife(that doesn't reach as far) in our arsenal as also facing wood.
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We are just trying to save a life hear. So, those of us that would go after another man and bring him back whole; we keep ringing the bell to everyone. We all do well at this; but it ain't no game!

 

[colb]

I'm fine with @Ent poking around, but I think you're right about @Tom Dunlap being undeserving of man-in-the-middle treatment.
I'm going to take a different tack on this: why aren't we required to carry two chainsaws? I'm sure @Reg is fine with the weight, so the rest of us shouldn't complain about extra weight, lol. Would you be safer in some situations?

 

[Ent]

.
i'm glad we have a relevant voice knowledge-able of formal standards evolution and parliament taking time for this round table when none of the other standing members speaks so openly thru the hails of negativity flowing back. Then so dutifully reports back to shirts and ties etc.; getting beat up from both sides. Then dedicated, passionate and hardy enough to continue this Tomfoolery for decades.
.
If working with a tight line that can turn against ya; should have a quick release device/knife etc. Don't matter what or where you are doing. We have handsaw more than standard knife(that doesn't reach as far) in our arsenal as also facing wood.
.
We are just trying to save a life hear. So, those of us that would go after another man and bring him back whole; we keep ringing the bell to everyone. We all do well at this; but it ain't no game!

Good for you boss. Carry a knife etc. Carry on. I'm not attacking anyone.

 

[owScott]

My hand saw stays on my left hip with my lanyard so its out of the way of my chain saw. Been there 30 years, I like it for convenience, cant see a safety reason here. Don't like the hand saw on the legs, seems to fall out a lot. I make the final decision on what is safe for me. This IMO is a personal preference. I am familiar with the standard but making it a safety is a stretch.

 

[JD3000]

Rare earth magnet at the base of the scabbed helps keep them staying in place.

 

[*useless info*]

Maid from recon of dead hard drive for magnet;
to me is a further Dunlap-ism.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Rare earth magnet at the base of the scabbed helps keep them staying in place.

I've always put mine about an inch down from the handle. Epoxy the magnet on the inside and on the non-teeth alignment. That pulls the teeth back away from the scabbard reducing the teetch chewing up the scabbard

Maid from recon of dead hard drive for magnet;
to me is a further Dunlap-ism.

YOu've heard of this for a while haven't you?! LOL

 

[GreenstoneVT]

If working with a tight line that can turn against ya; should have a quick release device/knife etc. Don't matter what or where you are doing. We have handsaw more than standard knife(that doesn't reach as far) in our arsenal as also facing wood.
.

This, not whether you have a handsaw or not, is the root of the issue. Overall, specific remedies are not as important as being cognizant and respectful of the dangers we face. I personally carry both a handsaw and a knife with me on every climb, rec climbs included. I don’t like the idea of being mandated to carry something because, uh, it might be useful. I think we should be fully aware that, when working with ropes, things can unexpectedly tighten and need to be cut in a hurry. We also work with wire core flip lines - is ANSI going to mandate carrying a pair of bolt cutters on your saddle for when that goes tight? Or maybe should we just be aware of the circle of death, that some tree species peel more than others, and that there are steps we can take to protect ourselves. In much the same vein, I don’t think there should be so much of a ban on using a saw one handed as there should be an understanding that the saw tip is a dangerous area and one handed use decreases controllability thereby increasing the possibility of an unforeseen tip interaction. Don’t blindly follow the rules, understand why the rules were written.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

@GreenstoneVT

Well written

Most of what you wrote was discussed at the Z meetings. The thought process is there too.

Unless someone has attended a Z meeting you aren't going to be aware of the process. There are plenty of suggestions that are considered and shelved.

If anyone wants to attend a Z meeting its open and free to attend. They're held in Baltimore usually mid April and Mid-October. There are work groups/sub committees that anyone can help on too.

There are plenty of good reasons to carry a handsaw. Do as you please.

Oh..if anyone on the crew is climbing with a wire-core flipline it should be policy to have bolt cutters on the crew truck.

 

[*useless info*]

i'm not a big fan of cable core lanyards; tho realize some utility.
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For me, having sharp knife etc. logic to cut your way out of your own (or other) contrivance is a standard that spans beyond tree, rope, climbing, farming, manufacturing etc. environments. Pocket knife may be buried in pocket under climbing saddle. Handsaw is tool of trade, handy reaching device, that gives the quick release of tight line. Saw would not be as choice as pocket knife or razor for trimming ropes; but in a tight pinch literally..
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And if working other job ever with any kind of wire baler etc.; should have wire cutters.. Kinda a way of (farm) life to me; and way for life as well.
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1 handing ban to me is like the necessity of lesser evils at some points. We need the ban so the alarm goes off in head when chancing 1 toe over the line for a sec; and rowing hard to get back in line. This is a momentary flicker /breathe hold( with high concentration by climber ) in climb compared to not having saw whole ride(caught off guard in general delivery, not total focus) to me.

 

[Mowerr]

If not bolt cutters then the chainsaw will cut that wire core lanyard rite quick

 

[GreenstoneVT]

1 handing ban to me is like the necessity of lesser evils at some points. We need the ban so the alarm goes off in head when chancing 1 toe over the line for a sec; and rowing hard to get back in line. This is a momentary flicker /breathe hold( with high concentration by climber ) in climb compared to not having saw whole ride(caught off guard in general delivery, not total focus) to me.

I keep my handsaw on my left and my knife on my right so as to have something in reach no matter how I might be constrained. Looking into one of those quick release chest knives as well. I totally agree with Tom that handsaws are incredibly useful for a variety of tasks. My concern is more that people will fall into a routine of thinking that following rules X, Y, and Z will keep them safe rather than critically thinking about each scenario individually. Let’s say Tom’s suggestion about bolt cutters on the truck was incorporated into ANSI. Someone with a wire core may think they are covered. Have they thought about how long it’ll take the groundies to get it out and onto the rope while their guts are being squeezed? Will they even be able to pull it up? I agree with Mower that the saw will work just fine. Since it’s most likely to happen during cutting the likelihood of the saw being on is pretty good. If they hit the kill switch as the piece went over will they be able to start it again? Most rope scenarios gone wrong are in the same boat so do we really need the handsaw for that purpose if we will, in all likelihood, have a running saw in our hands?

 

[*useless info*]

i think in emergency; especially after first hit , pinch or constriction we can't really count on saw to be in hand or even running. i think this consideration is to all climbing; rope powered by bodyweight. But then especially in rigging where rope can be powered by 600# log, with IMPACT on line to trap, pinch, constrict.
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Extending this to rescue to parallel other scenarios, disciplines etc.; would be most proper for rescuer to have cutting device. But then also fail-safe to being able to take climber's own hand saw/knife to perform rescue. Like a diver would with a knife, perhaps after rescuer dropped own or even matter of protocol not to use own. .Mil med packs, food etc. would lean to same i'd think.
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For me these are the alone in different world basics time has shown not to forsaken.
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When 1 handing or other momentary contradictions to protocol; should have alarm in head equivalent to brain questioning own hand's action and blaring out to you "re-connect your airline dumbass" and ticking clock in background reminding to get back in line ASA(MF)P... For me, that is why there are regs etc.; to get that alarm drilled in. You can only hold breath so long/ due with only so much exposure before getting burnt. It is in the numbers; and the autonomous complacency from it being every day/not special.
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Standard hero action in mountain/ rescue is 1 man rescuing lower man on rope. Lower man realizes they both can't make it; especially over lip and lower man uses own knife to save upper man on shared rope. It is a trust; that they all have taken on the risks, have the gear; know how to use it and will go the real distance if necessary; in any scenario. Ain't no game; just cuz all the chips are on the table!

 

[Tony]

Much ado about nothing. If more climbers adhered to the two hands on a chainsaw when cutting directive, handsaw when aloft would not have become a should.

I have no grand rescue illusions or master plan. I just feel silly firing up a power saw to clear one or two small branches out of my way. Occasionally I enjoy the convenience of finishing a larger cut “manually”

Tony

 

[*useless info*]

Just trying to present examples that outside our little wierld and all thru time ....
From all angles, rope handling logic and even heritage always show carrying rope as entanglement and knife as safety release, and have seen same logic carried to balers/ banders of farm and factory etc.
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To me always been kinda a yin/yang thing;
of being able to powerfully do and undo things together on the fly.
With rope as entanglement, and knife as it's non (flipside/neutralizing key).
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Besides all that; hand saw in this environment very handy cutting and reaching tool. Without noise, weight and vibration of chainsaw.

 

[southsoundtree]

@GreenstoneVT

Well written

Most of what you wrote was discussed at the Z meetings. The thought process is there too.

Unless someone has attended a Z meeting you aren't going to be aware of the process. There are plenty of suggestions that are considered and shelved.

If anyone wants to attend a Z meeting its open and free to attend. They're held in Baltimore usually mid April and Mid-October. There are work groups/sub committees that anyone can help on too.

There are plenty of good reasons to carry a handsaw. Do as you please.

Oh..if anyone on the crew is climbing with a wire-core flipline it should be policy to have bolt cutters on the crew truck.

Or simply a cuttable-link. I run a hitch on my flip.

 

[Jonny]

I've never tried carrying it on my leg, I've always just clipped it on my saddle.
Just noticed my Silky Gomtaro has slots on the back of the scabbard. Maybe I'll give it a whirl.

 

[Burrapeg]

I only rec climb but have a couple of the smaller folding saws from WesSpur. One is very small but still razor sharp and seems to have hardened teeth like the other, larger one. Both have short lanyards with small biners, to clip onto my saddle. I can't imagine going up without one of them. Great for quickly clearing sharp stubs that might be a hazard swinging or limb walking.

 

[climbstihl]

I only rec climb but have a couple of the smaller folding saws from WesSpur. One is very small but still razor sharp and seems to have hardened teeth like the other, larger one. Both have short lanyards with small biners, to clip onto my saddle. I can't imagine going up without one of them. Great for quickly clearing sharp stubs that might be a hazard swinging or limb walking.

I usually use a silky sugoi, but somezimes I want something smaller, I have a corona folding saw that I lashed an accessory carabiner onto. It is held very well, meaning I can rack it one-handed by just holding the saw. A biner on a lanyard sounds very impractical to me. Also, my saw is very easy to open and close one-handed.