Oak Diseases Fl

T

Timberwerks

Location
Tampa
I have a large Laurel Oak and a Live Oak at my residence that need pruning. The Laurel is approximately 40 ft high and 22" DBH, the Live Oak is of similar size. Both trees appear to have never been touched as I can't find any signs of trimming. Both are very thick, with lots of dead branches (suckers?) as well as live ones close to the inside or the tree (also suckers?). It seems like common practice is to wait until the fall or winter to prune these trees, however, I received advice from three separate ISA certified arborists all stating that oaks could be pruned all year in Florida and that Oak Wilt and some other disease I can't recal were a northern thing?

Is this true? I understand they're trying to sell me a service which makes me highly skeptical.

What would be a responsible trimming/maintenance program for oak trees in Florida? Are there any specific pruning techniques that I should follow? I plan to trim/prune both trees my self.
 
And it seems you're trying to get something for nothing, which makes me highly skeptical. Why waste the time of 3 professionals if you had no intention of paying for services? I've got no time for tire kickers like you.
 
cerviarborist said:
And it seems you're trying to get something for nothing, which makes me highly skeptical. Why waste the time of 3 professionals if you had no intention of paying for services? I've got no time for tire kickers like you.
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Yet apparently you have time to write a snide post. I tend to think that you would not have this same attitude towards someone in person. You rudely and immediately jump to conclusions that none of these professionals were offered or given compensation for their advice and time?

I've been a small business owner/operator most of my adult life in the lawn care industry; both before my time in the Navy and since. The lawn care industry, like many others, I'm sure yours included from what I've seen, is full of hacks, under cutters and cheats. In such a bottomed out industry I've managed to somehow build and maintain a successful business while charging at least 20% more, and often times 50% percent more than the competition.

Many of my best long term clients started out as what I would consider "tire kickers." I've had people I quoted call me months, and even years later to hire me and my company for it's services; stating that my professionalism, friendliness, honesty and willingness to spend time with them as setting me apart from the competition and that they wish they would have hired me first.

For the record, all three arborists were made well aware ahead of time that I was simply looking for advice and guidance. Monetary compensation was offered for their time, and none accepted. All were very friendly and professional. All also tried to sell me trimming services. One (the most expensive quote by several hundred dollars) even stuck around and talked chain saws and climbing with me.

I don't currently have a tree guy that I refer work too, but I can tell you right now that if the information I was given by the arborist that stood around and talked saws and climbing with me is true, he will be getting many a referral from me, and I get a lot of clients asking about tree work.

Something I've learned in life... You never know who you're talking to. That guy kicking tires may not really be kicking tires, so it behooves one not to make an ass out of himself.


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Timberwerks said:
Is this true? I understand they're trying to sell me a service which makes me highly skeptical.

.
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Seems like a consultation is in order, not an estimate. Find a good arborist and pay him for an hour of his time. Don't use the "estimate" or promise of other referrals down the road as a way to get a free advice. Don't waste people's time. If they were trying to sell you a service they obviously thought it was an estimate.
 
Ryan Thomas said:
Timberwerks, oak wilt is not in every state. I am not from Florida, but to my knowledge, oak wilt is either very rare in Florida, or there may actually be no documented cases at all. https://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/howtos/ht_oakwilt/identify_prevent_and_control_oak_wilt_print.pdf. Click the link to see the distribution as of 2010. I think you will be ok to prune at any time of the year.
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Ryan, thanks for the insight and the link. Going off the map, it appears that there aren't even any reported cases within a few hundred miles of Florida. That looks like a great read and when I get some more time later tonight I'll read the whole article.



RoyalTree said:
Seems like a consultation is in order, not an estimate. Find a good arborist and pay him for an hour of his time. Don't use the "estimate" or promise of other referrals down the road as a way to get a free advice. Don't waste people's time. If they were trying to sell you a service they obviously thought it was an estimate.
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Royal tree, this seems to have really struck a cord with many people, and I understand as I'm a small business owner/operator my self and nothing burns me up more than people wasting my time. In fact, I've gotten pretty good at figuring out who's wasting my time and who's not, to the point that I occasionally don't even bother driving out to give an estimate or returning a voicemail at times. However, I think a key point here isn't getting across or is being missed.

When I called these three people, they were all informed up front, over the phone that I was not looking for pruning or trimming services but professional advice, and that I would be willing to compensate them for their time with money.

At no point did I ever promise or lead anyone to believe that they would receive any referrals from me at all. That was something that I kept to my self as I've been looking for a good tree guy to network with. I consider my self the best lawn care provider in the Bay Area, I would like to refer my clients to the best tree expert available. I'm pretty picky and exceptionally detail oriented, as are many of my clients. I figured if he or she seemed good I'd love to give them business, and vice versa, I'm sure it could work out well for too. Networking is how I've gotten a lot of business, and honestly how I find most of the contractors I have ever used. At no point, though, did I ever lead anyone to believe that I wanted trimming services, or that I would give them referrals in exchange for any kind of service. None of these arborists even knew I was in the lawn care business.

What happened is as follows; they came out, gave some advice, which included that I shouldn't do this my self and to leave it to a professional (which I found somewhat insulting given what I told them up front, and given that they know nothing about me or my level of education). They all left me with estimates and said to give them a call when I'm ready.

I tried scheduling a consultation, and despite my best efforts, I got estimates.


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Timberwerks, not to add to the insult, but of course I agree that pruning, especially involving climbing, should be left to a professional. Granted I don't exactly know your background, but 40 ft tall oak trees that have never been pruned before is a daunting task for an amateur climber. Beside the obvious safety concerns, there is a real tendency to over thin oak trees, which of course is detrimental to tree health. Some of the work will be on the branch ends, which will be difficult to access if you do not have much time in the saddle. Couple that with the sheer mess of live and dead suckers and interior branches you'll have to fight through, and you may find yourself getting frustrated and exhausted, which will lead to poor pruning choices and poor safety choices. A lot of speculation on my part I know, and its certainly not to offend or insult you. I think you will be further ahead by having one of the pros that you spoke with perform the work.
 
Ryan Thomas said:
Timberwerks, not to add to the insult, but of course I agree that pruning, especially involving climbing, should be left to a professional. Granted I don't exactly know your background, but 40 ft tall oak trees that have never been pruned before is a daunting task for an amateur climber. Beside the obvious safety concerns, there is a real tendency to over thin oak trees, which of course is detrimental to tree health. Some of the work will be on the branch ends, which will be difficult to access if you do not have much time in the saddle. Couple that with the sheer mess of live and dead suckers and interior branches you'll have to fight through, and you may find yourself getting frustrated and exhausted, which will lead to poor pruning choices and poor safety choices. A lot of speculation on my part I know, and its certainly not to offend or insult you. I think you will be further ahead by having one of the pros that you spoke with perform the work.
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No worries, and no insult taken. I have experience with high angle rescue, confined space rescue, rope access, working at height and high angle emergency egress from my full time career.

What I don't have experience in is the specifics of tree pruning and it's professional techniques. I don't know where the line is between over pruning and appropriate, I really actually don't even know where to start. Although, I think I can take an easy look around my neighborhood and see a good example of what pruning ISN'T supposed to look like, which is 50" high live and Laurel oaks with no branches for the first 20".

That's what I was hoping to get advice on. I actually really enjoy tree work and love working at height and want to do it my self more than anything because I just think it seems fun and I really enjoy learning new skills, which is why I was hoping to get a consultation/learning experience from an arborist.

I've even been floating the idea around my head of selling the lawn business and getting in to tree work one day I can learn enough to be a respectable professional. I have most of the equipment; professional saws of varying sizes, climbing equipment, experience with working at height... etc. all I need is the knowledge and experience of the actual trees them selves, which I'm sure is a life time of learning in it self.


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Timberwerks said:
No worries, and no insult taken. I have experience with high angle rescue, confined space rescue, rope access, working at height and high angle emergency egress from my full time career.

What I don't have experience in is the specifics of tree pruning and it's professional techniques. I don't know where the line is between over pruning and appropriate, I really actually don't even know where to start. Although, I think I can take an easy look around my neighborhood and see a good example of what pruning ISN'T supposed to look like, which is 50" high live and Laurel oaks with no branches for the first 20".

That's what I was hoping to get advice on. I actually really enjoy tree work and love working at height and want to do it my self more than anything because I just think it seems fun and I really enjoy learning new skills, which is why I was hoping to get a consultation/learning experience from an arborist.

I've even been floating the idea around my head of selling the lawn business and getting in to tree work one day I can learn enough to be a respectable professional. I have most of the equipment; professional saws of varying sizes, climbing equipment, experience with working at height... etc. all I need is the knowledge and experience of the actual trees them selves, which I'm sure is a life time of learning in it self.


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There is a lot to it. For starters leave the chainsaw on the ground. This not only is safer but limits the size of cuts, as it's easy to get carried away. Take no more than 15% of the leaf mass out. More smaller cuts are easier and better for the tree than fewer large cuts. Avoid cuts that expose heartwood. Don't gut the interior and focus on thinning the tips to allow more light and air to reach the interior crown.
It might be better if you just focus on deadwood for the first pruning. Often deadwood removal will make a drastic difference in appearance. Just make sure you do not injure the live tissue around the branch collar with any pruning (not all branches have collars). Tie in at least twice when not actively moving about the canopy, and always when making any cut (handsaw or chainsaw).
I have limited experience with oaks, as I'm well outside of their native range
Good luck
 
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Also one last thought is when I sell consulting I make it very clear that I will not give estimates or pricing. I am happy to review bids, write specs, but I make it clear that I am not selling work.
 
evo said:
There is a lot to it. For starters leave the chainsaw on the ground. This not only is safer but limits the size of cuts, as it's easy to get carried away. Take no more than 15% of the leaf mass out. More smaller cuts are easier and better for the tree than fewer large cuts. Avoid cuts that expose heartwood. Don't gut the interior and focus on thinning the tips to allow more light and air to reach the interior crown.
It might be better if you just focus on deadwood for the first pruning. Often deadwood removal will make a drastic difference in appearance. Just make sure you do not injure the live tissue around the branch collar with any pruning (not all branches have collars). Tie in at least twice when not actively moving about the canopy, and always when making any cut (handsaw or chainsaw).
I have limited experience with oaks, as I'm well outside of their native range
Good luck
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Interesting. So you recommend using something like a silky saw for your pruning? Do you only use an in tree saw for larger cuts during a tree removal?

Around here most of the oaks have no guts left, the only green is at the tips of the trees. Everything from the inside has been removed, which I suspected may not be correct. I'll snap some pictures one day when I'm out and about.


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3 certified arborists were invited to consult for pay but insisted on giving 'free estimates' instead? Bad habits die hard; self-esteem issues maybe.

Good advice by evo to deadwood first and study the natural habit. Then Job #1: establish your objective.

I'm not local but I'm willing! I'm going to visit my sister in Tampa later this month. Glad to climb with you and sell a couple hours' time to get you going. I have a spare saddle and gear and I teach pruning; see website for details.
 
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