Zip line slings

southsoundtree said:
What's this cost, out the door?
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Let’s see, I think the King biners were 20 bucks each? And the cords are 7 feet long each at say a buck a foot? Does that sound right? So 20 kongs 200 bucks plus or minus and 150 bucks in Viper cord? 350 for 20? I don’t know off hand I bought lots of stuff and the wife has the receipts but that seems a pretty accurate guess. By the way we used them with webbing for a fair comparison. The groundies find the cordage easier to manipulate than the flat webbing. For me in the tree I don’t notice much advantage. They say the webbing seems to bind tighter and has less thickness to grab onto. The cordage grabs nice and picks off the branches easier. The cordage likely has less overall breaking strength than the tubular webbing but like I said anything oversized is directly connected to bull rope.
 
southsoundtree said:
(y)
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the girth hitched cordage seems to bite equally as well as webbing, maple is smooth and webbing might be nicer for that? but when a maple splits it tends to widen which would ensure pressure stays on regardless of material used. Would be less likely to slip of a widening piece of wood? hmm haven't slung a Douglas maple with them yet?
 
It splits, and widens, opening the choke a bit, then closes as it falls free, I think.

A good compression-release cut/ kerf and a quick tension-side cut helps prevent it. Getting slopping with a top-cut only can cause a problem, IIRC.
 
southsoundtree said:
It splits, and widens, opening the choke a bit, then closes as it falls free, I think.

A good compression-release cut/ kerf and a quick tension-side cut helps prevent it. Getting slopping with a top-cut only can cause a problem, IIRC.
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Yes on smaller maple I pour the gas into em and don’t give them time to split. Super sharp saws on maple helps too!
 
I sew all my own light/med duty webbing slings, way more compact than knotting. It doesn't take too much of a machine, just one that can take #69 thread. 2" overlap in long slightly angled passes, about 8-10 passes across the width. Instructions are in On Rope, and it works great!
 
A#1 would advise to think of sling/krab(carabiner) sets as modular all the time rigging, not just for speedlines.
Biggest most immediate progress jump i ever made was to commit to take these handles and line benders (sling/krab sets) on every climb, not just wait to have sent up/deploy etc.
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i prefer 'free-ranging' /rotating slings for even wear etc.
But must warn any trap eye/keeper can give situation where sling doesn't fall off krab
>>when not really fully on krab.

krab_loading_captive.png


i prefer light Dyneema and Foins(below w/notes), note how boldly obvious would be if sling kicked up over captive eye with this setup to neutralize some of risks (above).
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Foins.png

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Like pulling out slipknot, holding 'tail' throw weight of krab around host , catch krab in same hand and pull thru to choke sling w/same hand >> in 1 motion, then click to eye of rig line etc.
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Multi-purpose swills army knife of utility for loads, speedlines, Tom's bouquets of branches, bending rig lines to give more or less frictions, small false crotches, re-align rig line force to different angles of pull, universal handle grab/hold for many things etc.
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some notes on Flat and Round rope bend considerations, knot 'strength' theories, carabiner loading:
strength-axis-geometries-carabiners-and-line-bends.png
 
TheTreeSpyder said:
A#1 would advise to think of sling/krab(carabiner) sets as modular all the time rigging, not just for speedlines.
Biggest most immediate progress jump i ever made was to commit to take these handles and line benders (sling/krab sets) on every climb, not just wait to have sent up/deploy etc.
.
i prefer 'free-ranging' /rotating slings for even wear etc.
But must warn any trap eye/keeper can give situation where sling doesn't fall off krab
>>when not really fully on krab.

krab_loading_captive.png


i prefer light Dyneema and Foins(below w/notes), note how boldly obvious would be if sling kicked up over captive eye with this setup to neutralize some of risks (above).
.
Foins.png

.
Like pulling out slipknot, holding 'tail' throw weight of krab around host , catch krab in same hand and pull thru to choke sling w/same hand >> in 1 motion, then click to eye of rig line etc.
.
Multi-purpose swills army knife of utility for loads, speedlines, Tom's bouquets of branches, bending rig lines to give more or less frictions, small false crotches, re-align rig line force to different angles of pull, universal handle grab/hold for many things etc.
.
some notes on Flat and Round rope bend considerations, knot 'strength' theories, carabiner loading:
strength-axis-geometries-carabiners-and-line-bends.png
Click to expand...
That’s all great and all but my captive eye slings are solid captive not gated captive, no worry at all of the sling coming out by slipping into the upper gate. Plus the upper gate is double action not single non locking.
 
Stephen Moore said:
That’s all great and all but my captive eye slings are solid captive not gated captive, no worry at all of the sling coming out by slipping into the upper gate. Plus the upper gate is double action not single non locking.
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I use them in a modular way, redirect, prusic cord or whatever comes up that they can be used for.
 
Stephen Moore said:
I use them in a modular way, redirect, prusic cord or whatever comes up that they can be used for.
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I use my "zipline" slings way more for non ziplining activities (redirects, hanging poles in the tree, basic rigging, hand holds, 2 clipped together to self rope etc) , but I do have a good sized rack of them if I do need to zipline with them. I figure about 10 is a good number
 
Stephen Moore said:
That’s all great and all but my captive eye slings are solid captive not gated captive, no worry at all of the sling coming out by slipping into the upper gate. Plus the upper gate is double action not single non locking.
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Ummmmm that would be exactly what i'm talking/warning about.
Sling won't fall off if one leg folds into gate.
Can look like normal,won't fall off/dis-arm;
but gives ACROSS pull to captive eye (trying to break it off)
rather then conducting pull DOWN the carabiner architecture.
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Thus, captive sling is same warnings if agent is knot, sewing or mechanical eye etc.
>>captive element can errantly hold sling on krab; when it is NOT prepared to take load.
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Perhaps hold sling/krab set in hand, kick 1 leg of sling thru gate and let lay down in krab
>>pulling sling and krab at ends /apart should reveal stress is on captive eye ACROSS??
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Even if solid captive eye (no 'breakway' to eye as in Foins) and sling choked on krab below captive eye/keeper; 1 leg of sling dances into the gate, force pulls sideways on captive/keeper; then if breaks that trys to shear/break the choke of sling from krab, as it trys to free load.
Several different scenarios may play out; knotted, captive, girthed etc.; but when 1 leg finds it's way past gate the loading pulls are NOT conducted down the engineered design properly.
If no captive agent, sling would simply dis-arm/fall off; when captive element falsely keeps un-prepped sling to krab, captive agent is more foe,than friend in serious usages.
 
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TheTreeSpyder said:
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Ummmmm that would be exactly what i'm talking/warning about.
Sling won't fall off if one leg folds into gate.
Can look like normal,won't fall off/dis-arm;
but gives ACROSS pull to captive eye (trying to break it off)
rather then conducting pull DOWN the carabiner architecture.
.
Thus, captive sling is same warnings if agent is knot, sewing or mechanical eye etc.
>>captive element can errantly hold sling on krab; when it is NOT prepared to take load.
.
Perhaps hold sling/krab set in hand, kick 1 leg of sling thru gate and let lay down in krab
>>pulling sling and krab at ends /apart should reveal stress is on captive eye ACROSS??
.
Even if solid captive eye (no 'breakway' to eye as in Foins) and sling choked on krab below captive eye/keeper; 1 leg of sling dances into the gate, force pulls sideways on captive/keeper; then if breaks that trys to shear/break the choke of sling from krab, as it trys to free load.
Several different scenarios may play out; knotted, captive, girthed etc.; but when 1 leg finds it's way past gate the loading pulls are NOT conducted down the engineered design properly.
If no captive agent, sling would simply dis-arm/fall off; when captive element falsely keeps un-prepped sling to krab, captive agent is more foe,than friend in serious usages.
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What you are saying is the biner will break if it is side loaded yes? And that side loading would be because the sling passed through the gate yes? Which would normally cause the load to be lost right? So the only difference is I have lost my load and broken a biner. I don’t want to loose my load and if the biner doesn’t break then the load just might make its journey to the ground anyway, but if I loose my load that sucks.
I do see your point and for year I used bent gate sport biners with rubber bands to keep the biner in one place. They were fast and if you payed attention to proper placement they worked fine too. The captive eye is a nice feature that chives the same goal.
 
Mind you if you decided to use a traditional non captive eye and still knotted to it you could still pass a side through the gate and not lose the load plus maintain better spine loading, they just aren’t as nice to use.
 
i'm sorry; guess as always and all ways i have different vision of this.
>>To my eye still if the sling doesn't safely dis-arm/fall-off when 1 leg high steps thru gate;
i consistently conceptualize errant forces against the krab and also places un-wanted shear forces against the knot/stitching/choke in captive eye or even plain jane.
Some might prevail longer than others, but still warn to forge against this happening.
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carabiner-warning-sling-leg-thru-gate.png
 
TheTreeSpyder said:
i'm sorry; guess as always and all ways i have different vision of this.
>>To my eye still if the sling doesn't safely dis-arm/fall-off when 1 leg high steps thru gate;
i consistently conceptualize errant forces against the krab and also places un-wanted shear forces against the knot/stitching/choke in captive eye or even plain jane.
Some might prevail longer than others, but still warn to forge against this happening.
.
carabiner-warning-sling-leg-thru-gate.png
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That could definitely be an important consideration.
 
Stephen Moore said:
It would be I for the loads you were dealing with were large enough to actually break the biner. I don’t think branches I’m cutting will get anywhere near that.
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Truth! I usually mess with small branches when speedlining as well. I have been known to tape a quick eye in a loop to hold it on a carabinier. That could end badly with even a small branch if one leg got clipped.
I have been trying to incorporate the near vertical speedlines recently and I tend to take LARGE pieces when I am just throwing them at the ground, considering that my slings are spirit single actions with quarter inch tenex loops.
 
Used to call speed line gravity bender/ not straight down.
Proper habits, proper looking consistently groomed to a sharply defined visual check are part of daily safety check, and teaching eye what is correct as it scans scenes and man becomes 'experienced'/knows innately what looks rite.
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Always think like 2 eyes 1 checking for wrongness, other for just out of placeness/curious.
Good Habits inertia can carry you cleanly across riskier thin ice that wasn't forecast.
Some call this L.U.C.K. Labor Under Controlled Knowledge; some just say good sense, become slaves to habits during constant production flow.

edit:
i like an aluminun snap, heavy enough as throw weight , but less likely todent your coconut than steel.
A lot of my lanyard grabs on vertical support (if no branches) are a Round Turn, not simple Turn,
Simple Turn is an open sided slip(internally i think of as half Turn) in knot world i think, Round Turn (or Real Turn as i preach) grabs from all sides, more of a grip. Focusing on radians, as a rope arc's answer to straight line, Turn is more of a radian/half circle/not full, Round Turn (RT) is a full circle (at least) with at least 2 radians (if not ), totally different game in rope usage.
 
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