Your personal SRT work setup

[Tom Dunlap]

Hi Jim,

That's the same setup that I've used for quite a while.

YOu found out why I put the small tab on the lower biner. It keeps the Rocker up on the top of the biner. Nothing fancy, just a U-shaped piece of metal taped to the biner. To keep the metal from chewing on the Rocker I slipped a piece of plastic tubing over the top.

What I was saying about connecting the Rocker and MC to seperate biners is that would be a true backup or parallel system. As it is, if the lower biner fails, both systems fail. When I worked through the redundancy I felt that adding two seperate biners made the system more complex by adding more gear. The chance of the lower biner failing is less, to my thinking, than the possibility of two biners getting snaggled at the base of the systems.

There is a diversion point when safety and backups can become hazards themselves. When that point is reached we need to stop and consider whether this is the road we should travel. If we need to add so many layers of protection in order to do a job, maybe we either need to consider not doing the job or come up with another procedure.

You wrote:

I'm still leaning toward using a hitch, maybe with a knot tender (small carabiner) running from the cord the microcender is attached to, then around my climbing line just under my hitch. As I move the microcender up, the hitch should slide up the line also and be in a better position to grab then if it were trailing down my line.


When you build that system be sure to post a picture.

 

[Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
The chance of the lower biner failing is less, to my thinking, than the possibility of two biners getting snaggled at the base of the systems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Tom. The above is the exact problem I ran into yseterday. The two 'biners would get wrapped around/tangled up in each other, and the the rocker would slide down the side of the carabiner to which is was attached.

I got the idea for a keychain type 'biner as a hitch tender from TheTreeSpyder. In his depiction ( http://www.mytreelessons.com/user/try%20again.jpg.JPG#WIDTH: 113px; HEIGHT: 180px ), it looks like a DdRT setup, but using the cord/web strap that is attached to the microcender might work as well. I'll give it a try and post the results.

Jim

 

[Burnham_Chamberlain]

Here's a picture of my SRT system. This is a modified Texas system. I use it solely for access, then change over to a conventional climbing set up.

 

[Burnham_Chamberlain]

I believe mine is about the same as Dave Spencer showed.

 

[Jim]

When you switch over, do you use DdRT or SRT? What hitch do you use?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Burnham_Chamberlain]

I go to DdRT for movement within the crown. I'm working mostly in conifers, and I use SRT for access to the big ones here in western Oregon. I use KMIII or a Samson assault static for SRT access, then go to Blue Streak with either a Blake's with a self minding slack tender or a Distel...mostly the Blake's due to the self minder. I usually have a Pantin on for assist on the tail when DdRT.

 

[Jim]

Thanks again. One more question and I'll stop bugging you (for now...) /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When you say 'self minding slack tender' , do you mean a micro pulley?

Jim

 

[Burnham_Chamberlain]

Well, the slack tender is a micro pulley, but the self tending function is created by use of a prussik loop of small diameter cordage and a brass snaphook. Tie up a loop of 4mm accessory cord, finished to 10 or 12 inches long, with a dog leash snap either girthed onto it or tied into it. Prussic that onto the standing end of your DdRT line a few feet away from the saddle tie in point. Mount the micro pulley on the running end of your DdRT line under the friction hitch. Push the prussik out to take the slake out so the pulley is pulled snug up under the hitch. You want a long bridge for this setup. Grab hold to the running leg just under the pulley and pull. As you ascend the pulley auto-advances the hitch so you don't have to push it up or pull slack out as with use of a micro pulley on a short bridge. I'll go take a pic of this arrangement in a few minutes and post it.

 

[Burnham_Chamberlain]

Here's a picture of the self minding slack tender.

 

[Jim]

Very nice idea. That's what I've been trying to come up with, but for SRT. I was planning mine a little differently, though, based on a slack tender I saw on TheTreeSpyder’s site ( http://www.mytreelessons.com/user/try%20again.jpg.JPG#WIDTH: 113px; HEIGHT: 180px ).

I was going to try using a small keychain carabiner attached to the cord from my microcender to my saddle, then around my climbing line below my hitch (and not using a micro pulley). Using your idea of the 4mm cord would make everything adjustable. I like that. I'm not sure whether it would be better to just use the micro pulley or use the small carabiner. The small carabiner would save some bulk and some weight and serve the same purpose as the pulley.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Jim,

So you're trying to find a slack tender for SRT along the lines of a Mini-Jack? interesting...

How do envision sliding the tender up the rope? How would it slide down as you work the tree?

Have you seen the RADS using the Shunt as the upper with the cord coming down to slack it? I'm thinking that something along this line would work...my mind is cranking

 

[Burnham_Chamberlain]

Jim, I wish I was clever enough to be able to claim to be the originator of the self minding slack tender for DdRT, but alas, I stole the idea from someone else on one of the climbing forums a few years ago. I have found it to be very useful, pretty much my SOP now...saves energy and is not in the way when descending, just manipulate your hitch as normal. The leash snap lets you quickly disconnect it if you need to separate off your split tail to pass an obstacle.

If I was you I'd go with the pulley over the keychain biner...I've used both...in my experience the reduction in friction is noticable. Use of the pulley in conjunction with the swiveling leash snap helps with fairleading the slack tender, which also reduces friction as the hitch is advanced. In fairness, not all will agree with me on this point, and the mini biner alone will work, for sure.

 

[Jim]

I tried a few different setups yesterday hanging some line off a hook. I tried a key chain carabiner both around the line and attached to the pulley. In each case the carabiner caused the legs of the hitch to spread apart slightly, causing resistance and interfering with the smooth advancement of the hitch. As Burnhan says, the key chain ‘biner seemed to cause the most drag.

For the sake of clarity, when actually climbing, I use a Knut hitch, SRT, KM III Max, Petzl Pantin, and microcender. Currently, the microcender is attached above hand-reach on my climbing line. A piece of KM III attaches to the microcender on one end and to my saddle via a carabiner on the other end. If you’re asking yourself, “Why a piece of climbing line?”. Remember: this is a work in progress. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif Actually, I use it because it gives me an equal grip with each hand, left on my climbing line and right on the line from the microcender, as I ascend.

What I plan is something similar to Burnham’s setup, but adapted for SRT. I want to try attaching a piece of 4mm cord to the line from the microcender using a Prussik. On the end of the cord, I will attach some kind of a clip, which will ultimately attach to the micro pulley. However, I need something narrow, which won’t interfere with the legs of the hitch. By the 'tending' (4mm) cord being attached to the line from the microcender, the tender setup as a whole will move up as the microcender is moved up during ascent, and the hitch itself should be tended upwards by the micro pulley being pulled upwards by the cord.

The normal attachment of the hitch (and the micro pulley between the legs of the hitch) to a carabiner on the saddle, remains the same. Thus, once up in the tree, the microcender would be removed from the line; the tender would be unclipped from the pulley; and everything would be stored (hung off the saddle or put it in an accessory bag). What remains is the standard hitch and micro pulley tender setup. Moving around in the tree or descending would be as is normally done.

What I’m hoping for, and what I need to find out, is if this setup will (as I advance the microcender) actually tend to advance and set the hitch sufficiently so that it would be ready to support one’s weight.

Tom, I hoping for some of the capabilities of a Lock Jack, but using a hitch instead of hardware.

I haven’t seen the RADS using the Shunt. Do you have a picture of that setup or a URL where it can be viewed?

I do have a Shunt and have been toying with the idea of using that instead of the microcender. You’ve tried both, haven’t you? What do your opinion of the Shunt vs microcender?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Tom Dunlap]

In a while I'm heading out for a day of rec climbing...busman's holiday and all. If I have time I'll swing back to the shop and pick up the various pieces for RADS and get some pics. No promises for today.

The joy of discovery to you!

 

[Jim]

Thanks, Tom. Enjoy your day.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Here are a couple of pictures of the way I set up the RADS-Rope Ascending/Descending System.

Another option is to use a handled ascender as the upper. That is a good system for more up than down. Since we yo-yo, I'll put up with the 2:1 and have the Shunt tail along.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The Shunt with DMM Revolver.

The link will show you an illustration of using the handled ascender instead of footlocking the tail.

http://climbing.com/techtips/ttaid226/

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Here's the way that I setup my Pantin. If you look just below the P, red arrow, you'll see the little metal webbing lock that I put on to keep the stirrup from loosening. I changed the ankle clip, yellow arrow, and put on a metal spring loaded buckle like you'd find on a compression strap.

 

[charlieb]

Tom,
For clarification, do you use the Pantin with the Rads also or just foolock?
You use the Rads only for longer climbs?
Why do you use the Shunt instead of a Microcender?--is there a difference? Are both springloaded?
How does the small cord release the Shunt to descend?
Do you tie-in the shunt to your saddle or only the Petzl ID?
Thanks.

 

[Jim]

Tom, thanks for taking the time to put together some pictures. Nice idea about the Revolver.

Hmmm, looks like Charlieb and I have a lot of questions /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I assume the Shunt is above your hands and that you just push it up as you climb?

The 2:1 you refer to would only be for your legs, right?

Where did you get the buckles for your Pantin?

Do you think that setup would work well with a hitch (Knut) instead of a Gri-Gri?

I’ve attached a picture of another SRT setup you posted on the ‘buzz. Which do you normally use?

I’m actually looking for two setups: one for actual work and one for exercise. The one you have pictured I think will be very well suited to a work environment. I also like the way the handled ascender is used (hands on top) in the URL you post posted.

The system I’m trying to put together for just plain exercise is a bit strange at present. I'll post a picture for everyone’s amusement and comments when I get it close to final.

The idea I had for a setup similar to Burnham’s to tend my hitch didn’t work well at all for SRT. I made one ascent and took it off. I’m not sure why. I’ll have to play with it some more.

I appreciate everyone’s help. I’ve learned a lot.

Thanks,
Jim