Would you trust climbing equipment made with this method?

BobbyFrother · Sep 20, 2020

Howdy All,

Its great to be here! I have a stretch tent company and have been working with rigging and rope systems for a years now and there are a few trusted ways to create rope sections that are connected to (Precisely unknown) forces that are pegged into the ground with 25mm rebar 1200mm stakes. They are long and beefy and I had to extent them as I was consistently pulling the industry standard pegs 90cm out of the ground. I am confident they are being pulled really really hard:- The full strength of four men is gradually and consistently added to the large structures and it must be hard or it isnt right. Its a fairly brutal job to do. I could test the ropes but it is within the field proven strength range of the equipment application and I havent had the need, nor a rope ever break, but it will straighten open snap hooks and also damaged equipment is never installed.

If you take a look at the attachment you can see the main rope terminals that are used.

It is all 8mm polyester braid. I am assuming its static rope. I havent noticed it being especially dynamic.

I know for climbing 8mm is probably too thin but, heres the real question; -Are the swage blocks a respectable alternative to splicing and or stitching? Do you think squishing the ropes together in this way weakens the rope under tension? It looks to me that they are usually found on steel tensioned cables and are respected in other fields. How about in yours?

Reach · Sep 20, 2020

Personally, I do not like sharp-edged metal objects near my ropes, nor do I like anything that hides a connection point in the rope, so that makes this one a “no” to me. It’s not very inspectable inside that crimp, and I worry about the fibers breaking during the crimping process or after when the rope bends repeatedly against the ferrule. A steel cable does not have these problems, as it’s not as flexible or likely to break when compressed like the thin, flexible fibers in rope.

ghostice · Sep 21, 2020

For me, this type of attachment may be OK for non life support. I hypothesize that it would be ok for tension along one vector or direction. Arborist ropes however undergo a lot of twisting and side ways yanks that would introduce a wear point at the edge of the metal to textile interface probably weakening it over time. I would prefer trying glued joints to metal perhaps, if we’re experimenting?

Treezybreez · Sep 21, 2020

I won't even buy a steel core lanyard that uses anything other than a flemish eye splice. My main concern is that the crimp either shears the line or fails to spread the load over a long enough section of line.

MapleLeafRopes · Sep 21, 2020

One of our manufacturers uses a double swage to create the only CSA certified static kernmantle eye splice that I am aware of. They have been doing it for a very long time (to be honest I don't know how long) and they absolutely swear by it (above sewing). For a window washer or other rope access customers it's a pretty easy sell. For an arborist customer it's a bit tougher because of how the rope is handled while it's being used (the swage is far more likely to end up hitting a knuckle). As some of the folks above mentioned arborists end up using the rope on angles that pretty much all other industries don't. I wouldn't hang off a single swage, but a double swage from a reliable factory isn't too far out of the norm (at least for us). Having said that we still prefer either a spliced eye or sewn eye for kernmantles that can't be spliced due to cost, convenience and cross compatibility across all industries. Hope that helps. I'd be happy to provide more information if you're interested, I've attached a picture of the 7/16" and 1/2" swaged eyes we sell to access customers from time to time.

DavidP71801 · Sep 21, 2020

I don't think if everything works correctly it will affect the Rope because in use under tension you are putting load on the Rope which is pulling the ends away from the Swedge. The only time I can see the Rope contacting the Swedge in possibly causing a problem would be while unloading it but I doubt it.

I'm not going to use it for my climb line just because it's not proven and not very well tested that's kind of like being a test pilot to use a rope with a Swedge to climb on. As climbers we're already pushing the limits of safety everyday no need to add to it but that's just my opinion

When I first started climbing the old man that was teaching me put it like this he says if you become a climber everyday you go home is a near-miss you do it long enough 1 day it's not going to miss

BobbyFrother · Sep 21, 2020

Well thanks very very much all!

I very much appreciate your thoughts.

They don't appear to chafe the other ropes and id know by now if they did, even if they've been through the washing machine together, I haven't spotted it. I agree with the inspection principal. You cant check them, thats right. Stick with the splices I recon.

Safety and confidence in your equipment doesn't seem optional! The data would be interesting though wouldnt it?

What rope glues are there!? That sounds cool.

Agreed Treezy - I worry about that too as in a way it makes the rope sectioned, not intergral.

Thank you Mapleleaf ropes. Its certainly a strong one and thyre right to have good levels of confidence in it. I have the eqiuipment to make these myself thank you but Im new to splicing.

In my use case, there are no side pulls and they are always used in one direction but i havent seen them damage one another in storage or cleaning.

The knot on the s hook you can see is a real toughy. I don't know whats its called but its powerfully locked and easy to tie. What do you guys use when you need to add an anchor to a line?

Again, thanks all