would you do it?

[Blinky]

No way, not for a lumber company.

I don't mind mixing it up with a tree sitter but the motive needs to be more compelling than corporate profit.

 

[Jman]

If you threw a brief case of money at me I would really think about it.

 

[Jamin_Mayer]

I wouldn't do it.

But, I do have a minor in counseling....

Maybe I could climb up there, kindly listen to their problems and inform them of their consequences with the law. Perhaps, inform them that no charges would be filed if he/she got down at that moment...

There has to be a balance of approaches on both sides IMO.

 

[evo]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't do it.

But, I do have a minor in counseling....

Maybe I could climb up there, kindly listen to their problems and inform them of their consequences with the law. Perhaps, inform them that no charges would be filed if he/she got down at that moment...

There has to be a balance of approaches on both sides IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

make sure to give em a big hug too

 

[jim454]

Here's the deal.... for someone else(unless friends or family), I wouldn't do it.

But, try hangin' around in my trees and there may be trouble for ya!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

How would you deal with the rabble in Boston:

http://www.bostonmassacre.net/

or maybe Lexington and Concord:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Lexington_and_Concord

Whose payroll would you be on?

 

[easyphloem]

Thread derailing, Tom?

That's not like you.



SZ

 

[theXman]

An opportunity to climb some big trees AND help peacefully end a confrontation; I'd do it.

Actually I offered to pay my plane ticket there and help without getting paid on another project like this.

I wasn't needed.

I'm sorry I missed out in helping.

 

[treebing]

An arborist I know talked to me about a possible government contract job planting cameras in the trees in the jungles of africa to keep an eye on al qaeda trails. He asked me if I would be down to do something like that. I imagined it for a minute and while on one hand it sounds pretty thrilling, I realized that is about the last thing in the world I would want to do. Snoop around terrorist camps.
I'll leave that to rambo.

tree co. As for private property. Its a concept that only goes so far, because there are certain things that are used and needed by everyone regardless of who traded around some little bits of paper for the property they happen to be on.
Air and water are the best examples. Therefore, so are watersheds and the things that directly influence air and water.
Private property works when you live on the property and so you manage it in your best interest. When property is owned by distant corporate entities that see no consequences of mismanagement and profit from mass extraction, than treesitters and the like are required to control their natural greed and disregard for the lives of people.

If you live upstream and your pissing in my water, im going to be upset and ask you to stop.


I wonder if oxman has any thoughts on that experience and the aftermath. I know that he is famous now or notorious. I heard about Oxman and what happened right in 2003. I heard his name from both arborists and earth-firsters (who happen to be accomplished tree climbers that have a very comprehensive set of training guidelines and safety standards. Or at least the ones that I have met).

The incident was the buzz at the TCI.

For better or worse. Would he do it again? That tree sitter was a punk, he should have controlled his toungue a lot better. I hope he was reprimanded for that by his group. Either way, they are trained to make it very difficult to get them out, so I think that looking at it in business terms, Shatz and co. did about a good a job as you could have. mission accomplished.

But was it worth forever being looked at by a huge community of tree climbers and tree lovers as the pinkerton thug who extracted the tree sitters. Or maybe is he reaping the rewards of being the hero defender of twentieth century global capitalism.

I think it wold be hard to be an arborist and try to work with trees and around tree people with that in your past.
From what I understand, oxman had quite a good reputation as a big-tree climbing guide. How has this affected that business? I would imagine that many people interested in touring the big trees would be much more sympathetic with tree sitters than the global enterprise. Maybe it was a case of just being in a tight spot and needing some bucks? was it worth it.

last thought, Is it okay to wear spurs to remove tree sitters?

 

[evo]

Just to add to what treebing just posted. Around here logging companies don't own the land they are logging. Some is state, some BLM, some private, and some federal. They just lease the land, and most of it belongs to the taxpayer.

 

[Gerald_Beranek]

I joined the Team to document the goings on in Freshwater, Van Duzen and the Mattole. To photograph, video and write down the names, dates and places of all the participants and happenings during all the extractions I was present on. Both in the tree and on the ground.

So much went on behind the scenes that people never hear about. Not just the political and local issues but the orchestrations of tactics and planning, cat and mouse thinking, and both sides trying to outwit one another at every level.

While the extractions were all planned to be carried out with the greatest of care and safety the protesters used every tactic they could to thwart those efforts. Which resulted in confrontations and the videos you see on the internet.

One thing they will never show you is the people that we let walk. All were given the choice to come down on their own and allowed to walk if they did, or be taken out and go to jail.

But even for those that went to jail the following day they were up a tree again.

I don't regret it at all. But I am so happy that no one got hurt. Everything I wanted and needed to know about what happened is in notes, video and pictures, and I'll write a book about it to.

 

[Gord]

I'd buy that book Jerry.

 

[treebing]

That definitly would be great book and an important book to read. How much correspondence was there from the tree sitter group? Did you get to know very many of them or was there a very definite adverserial atmosphere of complete misunderstanding? In a sense you were on the front lines of a pretty important battle that was watched keenly from across the country by many people.

 

[Gerald_Beranek]

We were on a first name basis with most of the sitters. And on the ground the interactions between us were mostly courteous. I'm speaking of the sitters, not those protesters on the ground. There was a broad difference between the sitters and the ones on the ground. While on the ground our differences, viewpoints with the sitters would turn into debates of course, but a minute sense of respect and tolerance was paid to each other.

In the trees Eric Schats "would not get into debates" with the sitters, and would tell them, "We're here for one thing. And that is to see you get out of this tree safely. You can do it on your own and walk. If you refuse to come out on your own then we'll take you out."

The sitters were under enormous pressure from their peers on the ground who would constantly yell and chant loudly for them to resist being removed from the trees. And sadly at times yell for them to jump too. Some of the scuz on the ground wanted martyrs, not just a show resistance.

Eric understood what coming out of the tree on your own would look like to those on the ground. So many of the extractions where actually staged to make it appear the sitters resisted. When in fact they would offer no resistance at all and allow us to do what we needed to do to get them on the ground safely. Trussed up and handcuffed. It made them look good and they were cheered by their peers upon reaching the ground. And that kept them in good standing with all.

For those that came out peacefully in such manner they were usually just booked for trespass and released. And more likely they would be in the trees again by the following day.

But not all dealings with the sitters in the trees went as peacefully. Some sitters took a more firm stand and would resist being harnessed. Often times unclipping themselves and even our own personal gear and throw it out of the tree. You had to watch out for that.

Even with them there was never any slugging, biting or eye gouging. Just wrestling and finger pulling. Getting them cuffed first thing was the priority. And for them time in jail was served. Which was considered an honor for the cause.

I wasn't present when the ruckus with Phoenix happened. But he did climb up that tree with the sole intent to stage the struggle and get it videotaped by the sitters in an adjacent trees. It was the best propaganda video they could come up with to use as a false example of the brutality and ruff neck methods used used by Eric's team to get the sitters out. But it was indeed a cohered and staged struggle for just propaganda purpose. And it worked for them very well.

After 2 years I quit because a more militant mentality took over the protests and I was afraid that someone would cut a rope or jump.

There were hundreds of hours of video recorded and thousands of pictures taken, and court papers by the wheel barrow load. Oh it was very well documented to say the least. But anybody can take the videos, pictures and papers and build any kind of story they want from it all. Just by the bits and pieces they choose to use. Make the other guy look bad? Yeah.

I'm sure they would say the same about me when I tell my story of the events that went on. In spite of what either side may think, I have a strong sense to keep the story accurate, unbiased and truthful.

 

[chris_girard]

That would be a book truly worth reading.

I hope you write it Jer, you know that there'll be many who'd buy it. It would be nice to read about these protests from a climber's point of view too.

 

[Jman]

I would love to read it. I say write it we would all listen.

 

[speelyei]

original question: Would you do it?

answer: No.

 

[treebing]

So when you were working on this job, did you feel like you were in a batttle that you believed in strongly and that the tree sitters must be removed for the good of society? Or did you aproach the job as any other assignment like removing deadwood from a tree over Mrs. Burton's Garage? I think it would be impossible to completely disassociate yourself from the politics.

Was the team paid by the number of sitters extracted or was it a long term assignment. Im suprised that there were less cases of difficult removals.

 

[Gerald_Beranek]

I wanted to find out who the players were and how the extractions were being carried out. I heard all kinds of stories in the media, but most didn't jive with what was really happening. Curiosity, for the most part, was my reason for doing it.

I suspect the protests never directly affected you, but they did me and every other working person in the woods locally. That doesn't weigh much with a lot of people. But for others it does.

As far as the old growth goes there's far more falling in the parks from winter storms every year than what's ever being cut.

The protests don't end at the old growth either. The second growth logging plans are as much the issue as the old growth. And yes the sitters are staging protests in the second growth. Which most of the extractions occurred in.

Should we stop all logging just for the beliefs of a small group of local protesters? I for one do not think that is the all in one answer.

Because the protests here do not stop at logging. It's farming, mining, roads, power generation and basic development, all the way down to where you want to build your own home on your land.

So, if it doesn't affect you then that makes it OK?

There's has to be some give and take on both sides of the issues. Just not the environmentalists side. But in the media it's about the only side the general public ever hears. And the facts are often manipulated to sway public support towards the environmental cause. Seldom though is the real truth is ever heard.

 

[chris_girard]

[ QUOTE ]
There's has to be some give and take on both sides of the issues. Just not the environmentalists side. But in the media it's about the only side the general public ever hears. And the facts are often manipulated to sway public support towards the environmental cause. Seldom though is the real truth is ever heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that one Jer!

I'm supposed to live in the Granite State where our motto is "Live Free Or Die", but every day they're chipping away at our rights.

DES and EPA have us by the gonads and it's getting stricter by the day.

Unfortunately, we're paying for the sins of our fathers. Gone are the days of cut and run logging, but people still think that logging is done in a harmful way to the environment.

Totally clueless, and you're right, the media doesn't want to hear from the loggers in what they have to say about it.