Does anyone use a working Ddrt system using their SRT access line as your tie-in? I want to use a backed up ascender, with a pulley attached to the bottom of the ascender, as a Ddrt working system. Anyone see any probs here?
Working SRT sysytem
- Thread starter Redbull
- Start date
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
The frames of most ascenders are NOT strong enough to pass the 5k# minimum breaking strength set by Z133. You might find that cast or machined frames like ISC or CMI might work.
The setup that you're asking about is generally called a 'floating false crotch' and you should be able to find pics in the archives if they didn't get vaporized after the hijack.
The setup that you're asking about is generally called a 'floating false crotch' and you should be able to find pics in the archives if they didn't get vaporized after the hijack.
Im using the CMI Expedition II's (Two handed ascender for single line). I didn't consider the frame not being strong enough, thanks for the heads up. I plan on backing up the ascender with a VT above the ascender
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
Do you all consider those safe working systems as long as everything is backed up?
Personally, I like the ease of access and ability to work off your access line at anytime, as well as making an aerial or ground rescue much easier.
Personally, I like the ease of access and ability to work off your access line at anytime, as well as making an aerial or ground rescue much easier.
In this system the prussik is the primary the cam backs up the prusik and the leash gets tied to the acess line before going to work, I also load the prusik. Totaly bomber.I did make a little mod to the bolt on handle. I cut a piece off to make room for the carabiner. I am going to try to get approval from CMI.
Attachments
How do you feel about using the lower holes to hang the pulley, and a VT on top for the back up, the VT being loaded first, of course.
The set-up I've used occasionally is a small prussic loop, about a foot to a foot and half with two friction saver rings in the loop, in place of the pulley. I tie a four wrap kleimheist with an ascender beneath so as to not load the knot while ascending. I use a lagre CMI, but i'd like to have one of those two-handled CMI's. I'll see if i get some pictures if you'd like them.
Steve
Steve
Hey, I am registered here......................
I use a working srt system that works very well. Its called the secret weapon......
I have a prussik cord with friction saver rings spliced in. Tie a VT with the cord and run your working line through the rings. Bingo bango, floating false crotch. Just make sure you put a safety knot (ie. marlin spike) under the VT before you go to work. I prefer a prussik over a mechanical ascender because I worry about a loaded cam cutting the rope. I can take pictures if you want.
I use a working srt system that works very well. Its called the secret weapon......
I have a prussik cord with friction saver rings spliced in. Tie a VT with the cord and run your working line through the rings. Bingo bango, floating false crotch. Just make sure you put a safety knot (ie. marlin spike) under the VT before you go to work. I prefer a prussik over a mechanical ascender because I worry about a loaded cam cutting the rope. I can take pictures if you want.
[what???] huggybear beat me to it
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
I use the exact method Todd uses. (infact I might've shown it to him?) I have used it for years with great success and little worry. The ITCC safety committee has approved it every time. I would not use the lower hole to support your climbing line at all. Imagine if the handle seperates, where will your backup be? /forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
[ QUOTE ]
...the leash gets tied to the acess line before going to work...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is the leash there just to attach the system to the access line? Or do you also tie in to that when you ascend? Seems redundant as a tie-in. I just use the DdRT climbing line as the tie-in when ascending.
What is the red line on the right?
[ QUOTE ]
...the bolt on handle...
[/ QUOTE ]
The Expedition II works great for this application.
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The lower hole is not rated.
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ASre you sure? Seems surprising. Why would the holes be there if they couldn't be used for support?
[ QUOTE ]
Plus the caribiner will be sloppy with out it hanging down.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great idea Tod.
...the leash gets tied to the acess line before going to work...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is the leash there just to attach the system to the access line? Or do you also tie in to that when you ascend? Seems redundant as a tie-in. I just use the DdRT climbing line as the tie-in when ascending.
What is the red line on the right?
[ QUOTE ]
...the bolt on handle...
[/ QUOTE ]
The Expedition II works great for this application.
[ QUOTE ]
The lower hole is not rated.
[/ QUOTE ]
ASre you sure? Seems surprising. Why would the holes be there if they couldn't be used for support?
[ QUOTE ]
Plus the caribiner will be sloppy with out it hanging down.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great idea Tod.
[quoteI would not use the lower hole to support your climbing line at all. Imagine if the handle seperates, where will your backup be? /forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't make any sense to me. The lower holes on the ascender are designed for the express purpose of supporting your body weight. What else would they be for?
[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't make any sense to me. The lower holes on the ascender are designed for the express purpose of supporting your body weight. What else would they be for?
- Location
- Nashville, TN
here is a thought though, do you know at what amount of force ascenders will strip the cover off of a rope.... some ascenders can (with some of our rope choices) strip or break the rope at 1000# how far would you fall before you can produce 1000# of force? the answer is not very far, the best option for any SRT is to be working off of a prussik, you need to back this system up and you can do that with an ascender.... i just use a short piece of tenex with some small rings spliced into each end. sometimes i run a carabiner with a rescue pulley through these rings..... i always back this system up with a marlin spike (i love that term, makes me feel like i'm a fisherman!)
Rob
Rob
I use the leash while acsending because it is the perfect reach. Yes it is redundant but the length of my climbing system may change while ascending. The rope on the right is the fall end or the acsess line. It was set up just for a photo to send to CMI. I have not seen any documentation for the lower hole but I have not looked real hard for some. The CMI is all one piece so there is nothing to seperate. The left handle is a bolt on part.
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
I think what Todd is trying to say is, the bottom hole is not rated for 5,000 pounds or greater. Obviously it has a rating, but not up to ANSI specs.
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
[ QUOTE ]
[quoteI would not use the lower hole to support your climbing line at all. Imagine if the handle seperates, where will your backup be? /forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't make any sense to me. The lower holes on the ascender are designed for the express purpose of supporting your body weight. What else would they be for?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes Leon, body weight for sure- but only static weight. When we climb we may jolt it quite a bit. A small fall of 3' or 4' could generate 1000# of force and damge the line or caudse the handle to start to fail. With clipping into the top hole you load the prusik and back-up with the cam, not the other way around.
[quoteI would not use the lower hole to support your climbing line at all. Imagine if the handle seperates, where will your backup be? /forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't make any sense to me. The lower holes on the ascender are designed for the express purpose of supporting your body weight. What else would they be for?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes Leon, body weight for sure- but only static weight. When we climb we may jolt it quite a bit. A small fall of 3' or 4' could generate 1000# of force and damge the line or caudse the handle to start to fail. With clipping into the top hole you load the prusik and back-up with the cam, not the other way around.
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