working near uninsulated powerlines

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I drop phone and cable all the time.

Electrical service drops deserve due caution, especially if limbs have rubbed some insulation off. I leave these to the utility, if I need a drop.

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I have had phone/ cable/ power dropped by the utility before.

Do you mean that you actually disconnect the phone and cable yourself?
I suspect that they phone/ cable companies would not like it, but that it would make you job simpler not to have to wait around for them.

Here, power typically gets dropped between 8a-12, and phone between 10-12. Free to have the power put back up if called in before 2pm, otherwise they will hook it up for $75 (I believe), or wait until the next day.


What is your usual wait time on getting lines dropped. Here it has been from a few days to a week or so.
 
Yes, I do it myself. I'd really rather THEY do it, but getting them out to do a drop, even with tons of notice, is ridiculously impossible.

Power drops are hit or miss; I've had them come out and rubber up and drop lines months after I've already taken the tree. It's retarded and annoying, but it's been like that, lately.
 
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I'm going to call you on this one Holly. E-HAP is not QLCA. It only means you have been trained to recognize the situation/danger. You still can't approach closer than 10 feet.

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only your employer can deem you a QLCA, I still believe that TCI puts out the best EHAP materials there are!

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What he said. Please don't be shy, hiding behind a screen name. Just fill out the info mojo. Since all you need is the Ehap weekend classes, and to pass the mentally impaired open book test before your boss calls you " what did you say, ooo yea QLCA. (quality lollypop choker assassins)
. Since most line guys are such knuckle heads and can't pass it.
 
Here you have to call the day prior for a service drop. They have been pretty good over the last year making the 8 am I ask for and when you call for the put back usually they are there within an hour or two. Didn't use to be that way and have often had to crane all around the svc wire when otherwise it would have been easy.

Also have had a few probs. with put backs and you aren't gonna find a more pi$$ed off client than when they come home and find their service is off. Doesn't matter if elect. co. is at fault you are the object of their anger.

In 40 years I have asked one time for a cut back as my friend I know from years of service drops one day told me, why don't you have us get it cut back. Big lead way up over primaries and I had a spot for my 75 foot Teco Vanguard on the lawn inside the wires and could blow out the end of the lead in the road and rig the rest with a tag line around the primaries.

I thought why not so he called the office and the foreman from asplunger shows up and goes ballistic. Why are we working around HIS wires. He is going to shut my job down.
Didn't care much for his attitude and lack of respect and gave him the 1 finger salute and told him to shut his fat a$$ mouth.

Then his crew shows up and 3 tired looking guys get out, one booms up and they come up about 15 feet short of the lead and I realize why he flipped out. They cannot do the job. I got plenty of work and tell the client we will be back and they shut the job down.

They came back a couple of days later and speared multiple chunks of wood in the multi dom dead Eng.2 elms and slammed and broke 2 sidewalk panels. I called the city and got cleared from that.

That is the last time I ever call for a "make safe".
 
Thanks for the sympathy NeTree. Disrespect sticks in your mind for a long time. I was ready to be respectful and appreciative to them but not even given the chance. I cleared all wires in Raritan Twp. NJ for 4 years after 3 Mile Island nuclear accident in 1979 until moving to Cinci. Had no bucket and no training (except the old annual frying a hot dog on a wire seminar). They halted utility clearance at that time. Most of this stuff is common sense.

I called his superiors and complained and haven't seen him since. Thought I might see him off duty but no such luck.
 
One thing I havent seen mentioned is the MAD doesnt just refer to you. It is any tool or branch within the MAD.
Also refering to wire coating as insulation is deceiving and can give some false confidence.
 
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For a line clearance trimmer, the minimum approach distance is 2'4", and it goes up from there depending on voltage.

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Actually the new ANSI Z133 regulations now have your MAD at 2'-5" for a QLCA (Qualified Line-Clearance Arborist) working within 0.751-15.0 kV lines and working directly for the system operator/owner (electric utility)..

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Chris,, I have a copy of the 2006 ANSI Z and my copy says 2'4". When did this change, and where can I get a copy? I work within the 2'4" clearances on pretty much a regular basis. I want to be in compliance. Thanks
 
Norm, the 2006 Z still has it at 2'-4" but when I took the EHAP course last fall taught by Tim Walsh, he told us that it had changed to 2'-5".

Send Tim a PM and he can probably tell you where its actually written down.
 
Boy it would be difficult to call a moving body or line or saw on a 1" discrepancy.....and I have been around a looong time and to date have not seen anyone out there making any calls.

But, hey, if your climber gets fried you better be in compliance.
 
Its not a new rule. Its a mathematical error. Last year in St louis they had a train the trainer session for EHAP. It was there they told of us the math. Something about divided by 10 or 12 makes up the 1" difference. there were a few other small changes as well. All can be founf in the newest EHAP study materials.
 
It should have been changed for the 2006 revision of the Z, but wasn't. They sent out a corrected table and updated it in the next printing.
 
SouthSound,

I have to agree with the others in this post. Very good information being given out. Also Tom is right about 10' from any energized conductor. As for phone/TV, and/or service drops, the rule applies to those as well. Unfortunately, some ignore this as they (TV and phone) are generally not energized. BUT, unless you are a qualified line clearance trimmer (witch your employer qualifies you as such) you must stay 10' away. If you are a qualified line clearance trimmer, the regulations state you must avoid contact from TV/phone/or service drop lines.
Also, a clarification that I would like to make, is that no hanging wires are insulated in any way. Even the black stuff around the wire is only weather proofing, NOT insulation.
This is confusing and vague information at best. The main thing to consider is to recognize the hazards the best you can, and follow the regulations and laws to the best of you knowledge.
I hope this is helpful!
Stay safe,

Sam
 
The clarification of weatherproofing versus insulation is interesting. For knowledge sake, is there some resistance value placed on insulators, and if so, what is the value on such residential drops, phone, and tv?

Since I am my the owner, from what people say, I can designate myself as qualified after passing a test. Is this correct? Where could I look into such training? How involved is it?

I understand the how danger electricity can be. I have a friend, No Hand Stan, who was a phone lineman. While putting up a phone line after a storm, another tree fell on the line, bringing the phone lines closer to the electrical level of the power lines. No hands is just the most evident sign of this electrocution from about 25 years ago.

I am interested in learning what is required for safety and certification. I know that I could probably find it through Google with some searching, but I am hoping some people can point me in the right direction. As the owner, I am always super busy, 8 days a week.

Thanks for all input from everyone.



Also, do you charge extra for jobs around the wires, due to the extra required training, certification, and danger?
 
On most service drops and secondaries, the black coating IS insulation rated at 600v, same as most house wiring. On typical triplex the phase conductors have to be insulated from each other and the neutral.

But it definitely wears off against moving branches so service should be treated as though it weren't insulated. It's also worth noting that splices and separated conductors on those cables may not be insulated. The insulation isn't there to protect life, it prevents shorts between bundled conductors.

I'm not disputing the value a of what you said Sam, but that thing about the black stuff not being insulation is a myth and it's got to go.
 
The thing about qualifying yourself as a line clearance arborist as a sole proprietor is pretty shaky in legal terms from what I've been told. I don't remember the language but it's probably unwise to claim yourself as a QLCA without having first been a journeyman with a utility or line clearance contractor.

I charge based on the time i think it will take me to do a job. If there are lines in the tree or close to a drop zone, i figure more time. I don't take jobs with high voltage lines in contact with the tree, that's what Duke Energy is for.

It's handy to get to know you local utility's customer liaison for vegetation management (or whoever the guy is who sees customers concerned about clearing their trees). I get business from them.
 
Thanks Blinky for the update on the black coating. I was going off what I have been told by our local electric utilities. I suppose they "simplify" the terminology so we don't get complacent. Either way, I don't like using the term insulation for electrical wires since, as you stated, the protection is for the hardware and not us.

SouthSound - definitely charge more for jobs with a higher risk to you. Whether it be a hazards/dead tree, one near electrical lines, or one over a house.
I have to agree with Blinky on the sole proprietor certification. The wording and definitions for qualifying yourself are very grey.
Contact TCIA, your local ISA chapter, or one of the arborist training companies to learn more about the line clearance certification. In my experience, documentation of your qualification to work near lines is the key. (i.e. showing on paper that you have prepared for working around energized conductors).
I know that is still vague, and I wish that someday the regulations for this can be more cut and dry, but this is my understanding.
Thanks,
 
FYI...

CATV and telephone are in fact always energized.

CATV is about 75 volts AC, at the pole.

Telephone is 48 volts DC (with the phone "on hook"; about 12 "off hook").
 
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FYI...

CATV and telephone are in fact always energized.

CATV is about 75 volts AC, at the pole.

Telephone is 48 volts DC (with the phone "on hook"; about 12 "off hook").

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The newer CATV systems are actually 90v-120v.

Verizon FIOS runs 90v

Fire alrm runs 50v-80v
 
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