Who pays for Climbing Gear?

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It would only make sense for the employer to provide the necessary equipment no matter what it may be. If you were hired on as a grounds person would you bring your own rake & blower?

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Good point.

On the other hand, if I didn't like the rake my boss provided, should I expect HIM to get me another one?

When I worked at TCOT, they had a tool payment program in place. Like $20 a month, or pay period (can't remember) was put in to an account. I could use that money to buy boots, gloves, winter climbing gear, etc. That seemed very fair to me.

I prefer being the one do the buying, but if I am working for only one company as an employee, I think I should be reimbursed for that, at least partially.

love
nick
 
It is all about the ideals of the employer. The better gear, the less energy output, equals better production.

I worked for a large outfit and they provided me with a saddle, 200 feet of rope, and a vt. Interesting, to say the least when you try to climb a 100ft tree body thrusting your way to the top. I decided to play the game the first week and boy was that a waste of energy. I understood how they calculated there low hourly rate because you sure do pack on the hours doing thing with nothing.
 
I remember someone I met at TCI Expo saying their employer would not replace any personal gear if it was stolen from the truck. So a related question would be, does your employer insure or cover your private gear when it's stowed in the truck?
 
I would feel awful if I one of my employee's gear was stolen from my truck. I would do what I could to replace it. Now, if my employee forgot his gear at a customer's house and it was stolen, then that would be a different story.
smirk.gif
 
my climbers provide saddle, first handsaw, split tails, carabiners, hooks and flip lines. i provide basicly every thing else. every ones got different tastes so im not going to provide each guy with what ever he wants. i do have an old leather weaver for guys to try out till they know what they want. their pay reflects owning gear.
 
The company i work for makes you buy the item first,then when it wears out, they replace it. So i started with a saddle, climbing rope, handsaw, all my oun carabiners, and numerous other gadgets that i paid for. About every two months or so we have a senior arborist do gear inspection. If something you are useing fails the gear inspection the company will replace it for you. you also recieve a stipened of about 200 dollars a year. This 200 is used for any new equipment you want.
The comapny really tries to support the crew and climbers with whatever tools we need to get the job done, and done safely.
 
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When I worked at TCOT, they had a tool payment program in place. Like $20 a month, or pay period (can't remember) was put in to an account. I could use that money to buy boots, gloves, winter climbing gear, etc. That seemed very fair to me.

I prefer being the one do the buying, but if I am working for only one company as an employee, I think I should be reimbursed for that, at least partially.

love
nick

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I really like this idea, because like others have said everyones personal opinion on gear is different. Let guys get what they want and help pay for it, but if they want more than what your willing to give walla let them put their own money into it. $20 a pay period adds up quick and would allow you to buy adequate gear. IMO
 
We hardly ever leave the truck onsite over night and if we do we pin the boxes to be safe. If by chance his equipment was stolen I would replace the first time out of my pocket. The only time I ever had anything stolen was by an employee. Thats why I spent several thousand on a security camera system with a dvr recorder. A fenced yard and garaged equipment. I get a check every other month from the state from the ex-employee until he has paid me back. It was part of his release agreement with the state.
 
Royce,

I like the idea about 200/year for crew. Has it been like that with the company all along or was this integrated recently. The reason I ask is I am working on a proposal for my boss to integrate something like this with our climbers. Has anyone else had experiences with programs like this?

My boss pays for all gear period. He found it is way easier if everyone uses his gear from his trucks, from his yard etc, etc. At night everything is locked up his way. I think that is the best way to do it. Keep it simple right? His gear, his yard, his liability or fault for not having adequate protection at night...which he doesn't...I digress. The problem of couse is that his money cap limits gear. He's old school cowboy, when he climbED...it was spur up set a line, fig-8 down while dowing work until the ground stops you. Modern arboriculture is light years ahead of that. Hence my desire for the 'buy your own gear' programs that are being discussed to perhaps allow a little more freedom.

Jerseywild,

I agree with your comment of buying replacement gear out of pocket if it was due to negligence. If I lost my bosses climbing gear due to my own negligence I would feel compelled to replace it.
 
In this case I see your point, you want some goodies and the boss can't or won't dish out! I buy all gear for our crew, if they lose it, they buy it (i don't think you can legally require this but my guys are straight)I had all my saws stolen once when the old truck broke down and had to be left overnight. That hurt but we replaced and moved on. Try to give your boss some incentive, production based gear bonus, you will work faster with the right gear, you will work longer, with less faituge and be more productive and safer. I have no experience with these systems, but this is where his head is at, you just have to convince him how this gear will change his company. Good luck and climb safe.
 
Most of our guys have their own gear but the owner buys them whatever they want including saddles. Then if they quit or whatever the saddles get hung up and we use them for the new guys that want to learn how to climb then they get one of them it all works out.
 
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Most of our guys have their own gear but the owner buys them whatever they want including saddles. Then if they quit or whatever the saddles get hung up and we use them for the new guys that want to learn how to climb then they get one of them it all works out.

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This is good 'cept you give new guys old gear, they don't know what its been thru or how the previous guy used it. Also what about the guy leaving, i think he should have the chance to purchase the gear from your boss so that he doesn't have to start out all new as well. Once you break a saddle in to your climbing style and have climbed on it for a while i wouldn't want to start the whole process over again. You become very familiar with your own equipment.
 
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It would only make sense for the employer to provide the necessary equipment no matter what it may be. If you were hired on as a grounds person would you bring your own rake & blower?

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No, but I don't bet my life on my rake or my blower. I bring my own saddle, spikes, fliplines, and climbing lines. This is what I trust. Now I can work without worrying about it
 
ive never had acompany purchase gear for me to keep but they ahve bought it for use while on their jobsite. it best to have your own personal because you can use it when you want to plus you get familiar with it. they have however replaced ropes/chains/bars/files things of that nature.{usually after the third request. god damn line clearence contractors.}
 
The standard states that fall protection or fall arrest are part of PPE. So it is the employer's responsibility to pay for it. It is intended to ensure a minimum standard of be maintained as the liability would fall to the employer should anything fail.

I'm sure most could work a deal with an employer if one wanted a piece of equipment that was considered too expensive for the company, i.e., treemotion saddle.
 
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The standard states that fall protection or fall arrest are part of PPE.

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By "The standard..." you mean OSHA? Can you site where that is?

Arborists saddles are considered for work positioning, not fall arrest.

ANSI Z133.1-2006 defines PPE:



3.4 Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)
3.4.1 Personal protective equipment (PPE), as outlined in this section, shall be required when
there is a reasonable probability of injury or illness that can be prevented by such protection.
Training shall be provided in the use, care, maintenance, fit, and life of personal
protective equipment.
3.4.2 Workers engaged in arboricultural operations shall wear head protection (helmets) that
conforms to ANSI Z89.1. Class E helmets shall be worn when working in proximity to
electrical conductors, in accordance with ANSI Z89.1. Workers shall not place reliance
on the dielectric capabilities of such helmets.
3.4.3 Face protection shall comply with applicable federal regulations as well as with ANSI
Z87.1.
3.4.4 Clothing and footwear appropriate to the known job hazards shall be approved by the
employer and worn by the employee.
3.4.5 Respiratory protection shall comply with applicable federal regulations as well as with
ANSI Z88.2.
3.4.6 Hearing protection provided by the employer shall be worn when it is not practical to
decrease or isolate noise levels that exceed acceptable standards.
3.4.7 Eye protection shall comply with ANSI Z87.1 and shall be worn when engaged in arboricultural
operations.
3.4.8 Chain-saw–resistant leg protection shall be worn while operating a chain saw during
ground operations.
 
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/Browse?query...tutes_90o01_e#3

All of the Ontario regs for your viewing pleasure. It doesnt state anywhere that the employer must pay for PPE.

That said after my first season I bought and supplied my own PPE and fall protection (have never needed arrest as I don't fly aerials). Always. I also carried my own Marine policy to cover these trade tools once I started buying my own gear. Had a couple ropes/friction savers disappear, but never asked the employer to pony up.
 
The guy I used to work for provided our 'basic' gear (saddle, rope, snaps, biner, handsaw, lanyard). At one point, I wanted to upgrade and just did it. I bought a new lany and never asked to be compensated for it. Over time, I completly converted to my own gear. Everything that was 'company' got handed down to new climbers, unless it was junk. Another guy started doing the same, kind of like the previously mentioned 'mechanic' point.

Now that im on my own, I thought of doing the same, you want to climb, ill provide you w/ a supplier, you buy the gear. Most of the guys ive had though cant hardly buy a coke, let alone $1000 worth of gear, so ive done some rethinking. I do have a guy thats been around for some time now and I have some things that are brand new that Im letting him get his feet wet in. It is basic stuff, but better than what I learned in. The first thing I told him was 'although this is yours, its mine first. Nothing goes home to do side work.'

I think too ive pointed out enought times the expense of the gear, I dont think he'll abuse it.
 
The article in the link provided by Rocks and Trees:

http://www.treecareindustry.org/Public/gov_osha_ppe.htm


(and which was in the December issue of Tree Care Industry magazine) does not mention climbing gear.

Interestingly, this article is an abbreviated version of an article that just appeared in TCIA's online The Reporter. In the longer article in The Reporter it is stated that it is now unclear whether OSHA considers climbing gear to be PPE. TCIA's understanding is that only the climber's rope, saddle, and lanyard (the basic components of a climbing system) are PPE and are the only items for which an employer is obligated to pay:


Only time will tell how OSHA interprets
and enforces its new rule with respect to the
climbing systems used in the tree care industry.
The current understanding at TCIA is that,
for the purposes of this standard, the main
components of a climbing system – the saddle,
the rope and the lanyard – constitute
personal protective equipment that the
employer is obligated to pay for.
How would this translate into policy? If
your company’s standard issue was Climbing
System A, and if your employee opts for
Climbing System B, your company is not obligated
to pay for it.
What might be more palatable compromise
is if the company provides an allowance sufficient
to buy System A, but allows the climber
to apply it to whatever approved system
he/she chooses, and the employee pays the
difference.


NOTE: the wording makes it clear that this is still open to interpretation.
 
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