Where have all the climbers gone?

[Anonymity]

Wow, is it just me or is it hard to find climbers in Ontario. @$25-35/ hour and $up with Benefits too, you’d think someone could be found. I lived in New Zealand once (any kiwis on here want a job? Lol). I’d like to hear from other Ontario employers on here if they have any good advice for finding good help? I’ve posted job add on just about every conceivable location, so I’m a little mystified?

 

[Chris Schultz]

For me, where I live being an hourly employee is basically like treading water as far as money goes… Yes, you can do it for awhile, some people longer, but it’s not sustainable for long term (financial) survival.

 

[moss]

Qualified climbers scarce everywhere. It seems like you need to train your own.
-AJ

 

[deevo]

My solution, I do have 3 great employees & climbers but this the main means of removal for us, my other crane and the avants make quick work out of things. No drama queens on my crews. Finding a good climber around our parts isn‘t easy, I also have a good network of contract climbers / friends that help me out @Oroboros @Pelorus who are some great climbers and get it done any of the under 25 crowd around are fairies and princesses and at this point in time I have no time for them.

 

[Anonymity]

Qualified climbers scarce everywhere. It seems like you need to train your own.
-AJ

I trained a great young man for 2 years! Became very good, then he left for another job, unfortunately. (The climber and I still have a good relationship, but it sucked to see him go).

 

[Anonymity]

View attachment 80860
My solution, I do have 3 great employees & climbers but this the main means of removal for us, my other crane and the avants make quick work out of things. No drama queens on my crews. Finding a good climber around our parts isn‘t easy, I also have a good network of contract climbers / friends that help me out @Oroboros @Pelorus who are some great climbers and get it done any of the under 25 crowd around are fairies and princesses and at this point in time I have no time for them.

Unfortunately I’m starting to understand what you mean. So I’m trying hard to work towards a goal of purchasing an 70’ EasyLift , hoping that would help work around the climber problem a bit.

 

[RogerM]

Until skilled Arborist are recognized by the world the same as electricians, welders, plumbers, and mechanics.... Meaning, recognized as a skilled trade and not just the generic tree trimmer label, this trend will continue. The mechanization of our industry is playing a big role in this too. This trend, I believe, is leading to more unnecessary removals also. I fully understand that trees have to be removed. To me, most of the time, removals are easier to sell than expert tree care. .02

 

[ghostice]

Until skilled Arborist are recognized by the world the same as electricians, welders, plumbers, and mechanics.... Meaning, recognized as a skilled trade and not just the generic tree trimmer label, this trend will continue. The mechanization of our industry is playing a big role in this too. This trend, I believe, is leading to more unnecessary removals also. I fully understand that trees have to be removed. To me, most of the time, removals are easier to sell than expert tree care. .02

Ontario? There are many factors at play here that I see - climbing equipment availability and prices going up, up up, our play money Cant-adian currency dribbling along on life support - we don't make anything in Cant-ada anymore really (and duty, GST etc. pile on no end), mechanization of removals at play at the same time as many municipalities' safety departments are banning climbing altogether (safety ya know), intense competition from cut rate dough heads looking to make a fast buck keeping prices down, customers "what me worry don't know nuttin' just price" (a Canadian speciality), well meaning safety regulation wanting to make "Red Seal" trades certification etc. mandatory and all manner of colleges and private outfits willing to forehead stamp young-uns for only $50000.00 trade school attendance (there's also flourishing Provincial "pay your political party buddy to set up charter school" legitimized kickback programs set up no end - again the Canadian way), no job security whatsoever unlike European company's (redundancy rules there would make a nice change for our "workers are disposable" approach to labour here). The big international guys have moved in and spread kinda like tumors on the land leaving the little guys outa luck for a lot of municipal jobs, landscape planning, commercial jobs with consistent work year to year too. Availability of undocumented "country visitors" as a cheap labour pool (also see sentence previous). And on. In short - really great hobby but as a living - not really. Our oil and gas project secretaries made way more. And right now you can make more money landscaping, pressure washing in industrial worksites, etc. than $25 an hour. Really $25.00 an hour? As an example, our junior process engineers were billed out at about $130 an hour and senior process design engineer with 4 yr Chem Eng B.Sc. with 10 -1 5 yrs experience could bill out at $300.00 an hour. Compete with those guys to buy a house or land . . . .
End rant. Sigh.
Oh and did I forget to mention a lot of guys I know in the 20-35 yr age group are making way more money right now day trading stocks? 'An a cord of dry birch firewood is goin fer $1100.00 retail in these parts right now and gas about $6 - 8 US a US gallon! Nice spruce trees tho !
My .02 too . . .

 

[Anonymity]

Just to be clear, I definitely think too many employers (not all) don’t reward there good employees with great pay etc. I have NO problem sharing the profits so to speak. I only say $25-$35 and up with lots of other benefits because, I’ve had way to many people come to work for me that we’re definitely princesses! Put there’s spurs on backwards if you know what I mean! Can’t climb a 10 foot tree in 2 hours, so if some green young person shows up at the job and doesn’t know left from right, that’s fine. I love the opportunity to help him/her grow to be great (I found this to be extremely rewarding in the past), but sorry I can’t pay them 100k/year to start. Just want to be clear in case someone thinks I’m a lowlife cheapskate employer don’t want to be viewed in that way.

 

[Chris Schultz]

@Anonymity i don’t think anyone here thinks your a cheapskate. It’s just the reality. As the talent gets older, and more efficient most hourly wages aren’t keeping up with a respectable living wage nowadays.

 

[Anonymity]

@Anonymity i don’t think anyone here thinks your a cheapskate. It’s just the reality. As the talent gets older, and more efficient most hourly wages aren’t keeping up with a respectable living wage nowadays.

100% agree

 

[Boomslang]

Most decent climbers go out on their own and those that don't are scattered like a fart in the wind. If you're lucky you'll catch a whiff.

 

[27RMT0N]

I've seen lots of decent climbers do that as well, but the truth is many can't hack it actually running their own business... Employees see the 'big numbers' on the checks customers write, but don't see and understand the work that goes on behind the scenes to actually make those checks roll in.

 

[Treezybreez]

Wow, is it just me or is it hard to find climbers in Ontario. @$25-35/ hour and $up with Benefits too, you’d think someone could be found. I lived in New Zealand once (any kiwis on here want a job? Lol). I’d like to heard from other Ontario employers on here if they have any good advice for finding good help? I’ve posted job add on just about every conceivable location, so I’m a little mystified?

My ground guy recently left me to drive an Amazon van and I was paying him $25 per hour pluss free lunch. Good luck trying to find a climber for less than $50 per hour.

 

[Serf Life]

Until skilled Arborist are recognized by the world the same as electricians, welders, plumbers, and mechanics.... Meaning, recognized as a skilled trade and not just the generic tree trimmer label, this trend will continue. The mechanization of our industry is playing a big role in this too. This trend, I believe, is leading to more unnecessary removals also. I fully understand that trees have to be removed. To me, most of the time, removals are easier to sell than expert tree care. .02

Best post I’ve read in a while.

 

[Fivepoints]

Until skilled Arborist are recognized by the world the same as electricians, welders, plumbers, and mechanics.... Meaning, recognized as a skilled trade and not just the generic tree trimmer label, this trend will continue. The mechanization of our industry is playing a big role in this too. This trend, I believe, is leading to more unnecessary removals also. I fully understand that trees have to be removed. To me, most of the time, removals are easier to sell than expert tree care. .02

I'm a factory trained BMW mechanic by previous career. I was one class away from being a BMW master tech. It's not all people think it is. I had a lot of problems not getting paid for my work. The industry works on flat rate. Service advisers give away labor to appease a customer they have pissed off and the tech doesnt get paid. Wages are not much if any better than tree wages but everybody expects you to provide your own tools.

I've also worked as a welder and a machinist. Both really vary depending on who you directly work for. Can be a good gig or not so much. I actually own a machine and fabrication shop as another business. We have 3 cnc mills, a cnc lathe, manual mill and lathe, quite a bit of welding equipment, a cnc plasma table, jig table, tubing benders, press brake, etc. Good help for it is as hard to find as good tree workers.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your sentiment and agree with you. The trades as a whole have been looked down on for way to long by the you must get a 4 year degree or you are stuck flipping burger crowd.

 

[deevo]

I've seen lots of decent climbers do that as well, but the truth is many can't hack it actually running their own business... Employees see the 'big numbers' on the checks customers write, but don't see and understand the work that goes on behind the scenes to actually make those checks roll in.

Yep 100% I’ve had lots of ex climbers go out and do that, many are crippled up pogey collectors now, ruined their bodies and they aren’t even over 40, the old I don’t need equipment to do this like you, caveman mentality. We rarely go home physically tired, work smarter not harder, I’m in this for the long haul and want to retire in good shape not some broken old man I too was once young and dumb……. Was

 

[DSMc]

Yep 100% I’ve had lots of ex climbers go out and do that, many are crippled up pogey collectors now, ruined their bodies and they aren’t even over 40, the old I don’t need equipment to do this like you, caveman mentality. We rarely go home physically tired, work smarter not harder, I’m in this for the long haul and want to retire in good shape not some broken old man I too was once young and dumb……. Was

You don't need heavy equipment for that, and even having it is not enough to guarantee having a healthy long career.

You need to work wisely no matter what you are doing and what you are using. I have been a climber my entire career covering more than 50 years with no intentions of retiring.

 

[Vicente]

35 an hour doesn't seem so that high for a good climber, mountain Enterprises here pays 65 for their good climbers or so I hear full benefits paid vacation and retirement. If your starting out it's pretty good though.
I do agree with whoever made the statement about guys (business's) working at to low of rates and driving the price down to far, I got underbid by close to 50% on a removal it was about a 100-120ft dead pine 30 ft off the road downhill that had to be dumped I told the guy I could do it for 1100, you can't give pine away here and the only dump that will take it is 45 minutes away.

 

[Anonymity]

35 an hour doesn't seem so that high for a good climber, mountain Enterprises here pays 65 for their good climbers or so I hear full benefits paid vacation and retirement. If your starting out it's pretty good though.
I do agree with whoever made the statement about guys (business's) working at to low of rates and driving the price down to far, I got underbid by close to 50% on a removal it was about a 100-120ft dead pine 30 ft off the road downhill that had to be dumped I told the guy I could do it for 1100, you can't give pine away here and the only dump that will take it is 45 minutes away.

So that’s 164,000cad! Per year, plus everything on top you mentioned…live in a mobile home for 10 years and retire! 8% gains on $1,000,000 invested is 80k per year! That’s assuming you living on60k per year (which seems fine to me)… attention all “good” climbers…head that way and retire for good in 10 plus years! You should share that information in a separate post, people might appreciate knowing where the grass is truly green!