where do you draw the line?

Location
TN
I need some help. I have a thriving tree service and feel I treat my crews very fair. I pay well, provide insurance for them and their families, let them drive company trucks home,provide ongoing education. My issue is, when they damage clients property when do I stop paying out of my own pocket and start holding them acctable? I always figured it was part of the biz risk I take. I tool them up with great equipment...crane, bucket,loader,ppe,etc...i know how dangerous it is and figure they are risking their lives, but when does it stop!...sorry just really frustrated...please any help with this would be greatly appreciated. oh yeah, bonus dont seem to help either.....
 
Is this Nosack?
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Time to start shopping for new climbers, or leads. The ones you have are not leading by example thats for sure.
 
I think your right! A good leader is most likely where I need to start AGAIN. Nosack! Heck No, that is the last way I want to be! What is a good leader to you? tell me what you think I should expect in a leader and what should the leader expect from me?
 
did that one season...had a pool of big money there for the taking and they burned it up every time..i promote team work big time but nothing seems to work. I just dont get it.
 
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What is a good leader to you?

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Man this should get alot of answers. Ok!! in my eyes the leaders is your go to, get it done right guy. He, when time allows teaches and tries to explain the whens, whys, and hows. Shows pride in his work. Is able to take it on the chin about somethings without getting upset.

This guy should be able to help you put the right guy to the right job. He would be the one you want the crew members to bring complaints to and tries his best to hash them out before having to bring it to you.

I'm sure I'm leaving somethings out but I hope this gives ya some ideas.
 
Are YOU on site with them? Sometimes less is more, maybe you don't need a new foreman, maybe you should size your operation according to your management skills.

I am not picking on your ability to run your company, but am wondering how many people you have working for you. It sounds like you have all the tools, but they are nothing IF you don't have employees who know how to use and appreciate them!

With the economy the way it is, there HAS to be people out there that could serve you better than the ones you have.
 
my main guy is great, I really love having him with me. He is very loyal but admits that he has trouble asserting himself. He is very valuble to me. No big ego, just works his but off and that says alot to me. Its hard for me to get too upset at him because I know he means well. problem is, what happens when somebody gets hurt? I dont want that on my watch. I want to start holding them responsible for their mistakes without running them off....they are just accidents but way too many.
 
lol!! base pay on % of completed paid jobs. When they see they have to give money back for breakage, and how it effects their bottom line. They will either stop breaking or quit working.
 
If I worked for a tree service I would pay for my own mistakes.

I would feel awful about myself if I thought I was immune from being responsible for myself.

I had a friend of mine help me for a while with ground work. He is a photographer by trade. Good work ethic, but lacked the experience with daily stuff we do. He accidentally put a log into a window while driving my Boxer. Without any hesitation, he said he would pay for it. It was about $240 dollars out of pocket. He took care of the details.

Make your employees pay for stuff.
 
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Make your employees pay for stuff.

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That's illegal in most if not all states.

I agree with the sentiment though.

This is a tough one...since employees aren't partners they don't have to suffer the losses. On the other hand, when the universe aligns and there is huge profit in a job...they still get paid by the hour.

Can you share the details of your incentive program?

If there aren't consequences for doing wrong or rewards for doing right you may have to wait around for a different crew. Some damage may be accounted for...you're the only one that can tell what is excessive or sloppy work.
 
I think that training and transparency are part of the solution. Our policy is that if something is broken on a job, the individual responsible must report it to their immediate supervisor and the homeowner. When they return to the shop, they must fill out an incident report and develop a solution to the breakage (this may be as simple as writing up a work ticket to fix the damage, and getting it scheduled). Basically, it becomes Limbwalker's financial cost, but the "breaker's annoyance cost. If the "breaker" knowingly does not report the incident, and the homeowner calls in (or I see, say , unreported damage to our equipment), the "breaker" must bear the financial cost and the annoyance cost.

This system is not perfect, but it seems to work because it creates incentives to report incidents (potential financial cost to employees) and fix incidents (peer pressure, Limbwalker bears the financial cost).
 
Good climbers don't often break stuff unless they're in a hurry or they're exhausted. So, if they're breaking stuff a lot it's probably either that or they need some more training.
 
This is a complicated issue that will require a revamping of many aspects of what the company does with respect to employee management.

Start with job descriptions, duties and, responsibilities.

Employee manual; this will give them a description of the company, it's history, mission and vision as well as operating practices. Hours of operation, equipment operation, what is provided by the company to employees, vacation days, holidays, bonus structure. Within this you need to have a section specifically addressing damage to client and company property. Acknowledge that accidents will happen, excessive damage is not be acceptable. As described above by KYlimbwalker or reporting procedure can be outlined here. They really don't want to do the paperwork so it's already a disincentive. State clearly that damage due to negligence or incompetence will be dealt with through the disciplinary process. Disciplinary procedures are to be outlined. Are you in an "at will" state or do you have a state mandated process for dismissal? This area can deal with generalities such as poor performance, subordination, excessive absenteeism, illegal substances on the job it will cover the steps leading to dismissal. In some cases, again depending on the law, you will have grounds for immediate dismissal, in other cases, such as property damage, a progressive procedure starting with verbal warning with recommended actions to remedy the situation, next a written warning with corrective action and time lines, finally a final written warning with a set deadline for correction or dismissal, lastly dismissal.

Training: Develop training for all tools and techniques used on the job. You may want to look into a rigging course for the guys. This may be cheaper than the cost of repairs. Supervisory training for your crew leader could help him to become more assertive. A regular meeting to review work performance as a team, individual ones on an as needed basis. This can cover all aspects of job performance including any damage that occurred. Acknowledge both what is working and what needs to be improved. Ideas from the crew for increasing productivity or efficiency can be discussed.

Preface this revamping with a frank discussion of the issues that are frustrating you and seek there input. What's up with them? Are there problems that they are experiencing? Address them without giving over control of the company. The owner's role is basically that of a benevolent dictator. At some point you draw the line with them.


As for a leader, you want someone who will act as if it were his/her own business where they will look at the bottomline and work to achieve the company's goals.

Good luck!
 
Guys, I thank you all so much for the input.I am working on a better approach with this issue as I write this post. We had our safety meeting this morning and also started with our first incident report as well. The crew walked out to the trucks ready to work with yesterdays gloomy mood behind them. I find this forum to be very useful and plan on becoming more involved as we grow in this crazy biz. Again, thanks for the input. Be safe!
 
I just bought large dry erase board to hang in the employees office. Not sure how good or bad this might be but everyones name will go on the board with the date, type of incident, how it could have been avoided. For instance there was miscomunication between myself and my forman. He ended up cutting down an extra tree. Remedy, will paint dots on trees to be removed. I even thought I might break down to a percentage of whos fought it was on a particular job. Say in that case 80-20. Even as an owner I have no shame. I going on the board today for losing a 460 Stihl off the hook of the crane when the saw got caught on a small limb and popped it out of the gate because the latch was broken. That was totaly my fault and won't happen again. I thought it being listed would just be a constant reminder to stay sharp and focused on the job cause these things happen, but lets not ever repeat them.
 
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Is this Nosack?
bigeyes.gif


Time to start shopping for new climbers, or leads. The ones you have are not leading by example thats for sure.

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hollen nailed it on the head here, if things keep breaking then something isnt being done right, your guys are getting lucky that its only "things" that are breaking and not "people"
 

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