Waldo
Participating member
- Location
- Portland, OR
i'm speechless... that is so terrible i dont even know what to say.
Whatcha think about this pruning job?
- Thread starter Smorgasbord
- Start date
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
Is this a serious post that the guys is asking if the job he did looks good or what? No offense but I'm with everyone else on this hack job. Why not go ahead and just take it the rest of the way down? I'd say for sure the weight is reduced. Don't have to worry about any windstorms catching the sail and breaking it. Well not until it decides to sprout.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it is a serious post and I think his opinion is the same as ours, although he didn't do this one himself, it sounds like he is much better at our profession than this "Certified" Arborist.
Is this a serious post that the guys is asking if the job he did looks good or what? No offense but I'm with everyone else on this hack job. Why not go ahead and just take it the rest of the way down? I'd say for sure the weight is reduced. Don't have to worry about any windstorms catching the sail and breaking it. Well not until it decides to sprout.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it is a serious post and I think his opinion is the same as ours, although he didn't do this one himself, it sounds like he is much better at our profession than this "Certified" Arborist.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
[ QUOTE ]
...I gotta say that if he climbed it he deserves a pat on the back for effort...Funny how hard you can work and still do a crappy job...
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally true.
He may have nut hugged the thing for dear life.
...I gotta say that if he climbed it he deserves a pat on the back for effort...Funny how hard you can work and still do a crappy job...
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally true.
He may have nut hugged the thing for dear life.
- Location
- Vancouver BC
LOL if I came home to that "pruning" job I would call my lawyer, no joke! Absolute butcher work there.
- Location
- Illinois
[ QUOTE ]
ISA is a money pit!
[/ QUOTE ]
I just finished up my internship with the ISA and if anything those people deserve money for all the hard work they do to see people succeed in the industry. If I did not work at the headquarters, I may see where you are coming from, but if it wasn't for ISA the industry would be in trouble.
ISA is a money pit!
[/ QUOTE ]
I just finished up my internship with the ISA and if anything those people deserve money for all the hard work they do to see people succeed in the industry. If I did not work at the headquarters, I may see where you are coming from, but if it wasn't for ISA the industry would be in trouble.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
It's pretty rough, definitely not done by an arborist trained in pruning. Lots of internodal cuts and tears, I see some weird scuffing too, did he use spikes or a bucket?
If it was me, I would have cleared the house by a few feet and left the rest alone. I see no reason to have removed weight, the growth habit appears to be healthy without any big sprawling leaders. Nor do I see a reason to destroy all that foliage on a tree approaching maturity like that one... it needs to be making reserves with those leaves.
Pruning is something some people seem to 'get', and some never do. It's a very natural process if you can visualize. Best way to learn is pruning young trees, they can take the inevitable mistakes, you can see results pretty quickly and most of the urban ones NEED it.
If it was me, I would have cleared the house by a few feet and left the rest alone. I see no reason to have removed weight, the growth habit appears to be healthy without any big sprawling leaders. Nor do I see a reason to destroy all that foliage on a tree approaching maturity like that one... it needs to be making reserves with those leaves.
Pruning is something some people seem to 'get', and some never do. It's a very natural process if you can visualize. Best way to learn is pruning young trees, they can take the inevitable mistakes, you can see results pretty quickly and most of the urban ones NEED it.
Thanks for the feedback,
Yes this is a serious post. I feel terrible about the whole thing, as I was pushing for an certified arborist (which my friends indeed used). I even met the guy at the estimate and asked him about making proper cuts and his plan for the tree - which he said was to lift the crown and thin it out a bit.
No bucket, I wasn't there to witness most of this, but I saw a climber in one of the pines nearby. I think there was a lot of pruning with poles from the ground.
I'm pretty pissed, but I wanted some honest opinions without coming out hard criticizing someone else's work. I am not an arborist, but a rec climber who prunes some trees when it is convenient. I have a background in forestry and tree physiology so I can tell that this tree has not been treated well. Part of my reservations with criticizing the arborist is that I am totally unfamiliar with Podacarpus. With that said, two more questions:
1)Might this job have been influenced by it being a Podacarpus?
2)What (serious) advice do you have for dealing with the arborist now? He has already been paid.
The arborist seems nice, and modest - never really tried to upsell my friends so there's a chance he'll really listen to whatever we say to him.
Yes this is a serious post. I feel terrible about the whole thing, as I was pushing for an certified arborist (which my friends indeed used). I even met the guy at the estimate and asked him about making proper cuts and his plan for the tree - which he said was to lift the crown and thin it out a bit.
No bucket, I wasn't there to witness most of this, but I saw a climber in one of the pines nearby. I think there was a lot of pruning with poles from the ground.
I'm pretty pissed, but I wanted some honest opinions without coming out hard criticizing someone else's work. I am not an arborist, but a rec climber who prunes some trees when it is convenient. I have a background in forestry and tree physiology so I can tell that this tree has not been treated well. Part of my reservations with criticizing the arborist is that I am totally unfamiliar with Podacarpus. With that said, two more questions:
1)Might this job have been influenced by it being a Podacarpus?
2)What (serious) advice do you have for dealing with the arborist now? He has already been paid.
The arborist seems nice, and modest - never really tried to upsell my friends so there's a chance he'll really listen to whatever we say to him.
- Location
- In the Mitten...
Smorgasborg,
Welcome to the TREEBUZZ.
Did you check the ISA website for this guys name?
How did you find this Arborist?
How long has this dude been in the tree biz?
I feel as though he needs to be educated on proper pruning cuts, this job is way off industry standard. I would rather see this as a learning experience for him, and not a bashing session.
"Those who are lifting the world upward and onward are those who encourage more than criticize."
- Elizabeth Harrison
Welcome to the TREEBUZZ.
Did you check the ISA website for this guys name?
How did you find this Arborist?
How long has this dude been in the tree biz?
I feel as though he needs to be educated on proper pruning cuts, this job is way off industry standard. I would rather see this as a learning experience for him, and not a bashing session.
"Those who are lifting the world upward and onward are those who encourage more than criticize."
- Elizabeth Harrison
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
Part of my reservations with criticizing the arborist is that I am totally unfamiliar with Podacarpus. With that said, two more questions:
1)Might this job have been influenced by it being a Podacarpus?
[/ QUOTE ]Yes no doubt. Another thing that has been left out is the owner's goals--why was the tree being pruned? If the owners had no clear goals and did not communicate with the arborist, it's partly their bad. but[ QUOTE ]
2)What (serious) advice do you have for dealing with the arborist now? He has already been paid.
The arborist seems nice, and modest - never really tried to upsell my friends so there's a chance he'll really listen to whatever we say to him.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well then do not show him this thread. Ask him about the Pruning BMP's guideline of 25% maximum foliage removed at one time, and why he chose to take so much off, and what effect that has on the tree. Point to pictures of/the rips and ask about wound response. If he does not have a good answer (how can he), ask him kindly to go back and reduce the badly torn ends toward the house at the very least on his dime to reduce future risk. Without a common reference, the conversation will go nowhere for either of you. Get the BMP.
fwiw, I'd have made reduction/thinning cuts to make it more symmetrical and storm-resistant, and to keep air moving in the crown, maybe 10-15% overall. I've done a few mature podocarpus but not one that big, so I ain't expert enough to go drown someone's goldfish. You guys are cold!
O and Courville, you are in an exalted state (MA, not your consciousness), so your slams against ISA are based on a skewed perspective. I don't begrudge a dime I've sent in, and I don't expect them to police hack work like this.
They and ANSI produce the rulebooks--it's up to us to use them, professionally.
O and...did anyone look at the lower half of the tree? How are the roots?
Part of my reservations with criticizing the arborist is that I am totally unfamiliar with Podacarpus. With that said, two more questions:
1)Might this job have been influenced by it being a Podacarpus?
[/ QUOTE ]Yes no doubt. Another thing that has been left out is the owner's goals--why was the tree being pruned? If the owners had no clear goals and did not communicate with the arborist, it's partly their bad. but[ QUOTE ]
2)What (serious) advice do you have for dealing with the arborist now? He has already been paid.
The arborist seems nice, and modest - never really tried to upsell my friends so there's a chance he'll really listen to whatever we say to him.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well then do not show him this thread. Ask him about the Pruning BMP's guideline of 25% maximum foliage removed at one time, and why he chose to take so much off, and what effect that has on the tree. Point to pictures of/the rips and ask about wound response. If he does not have a good answer (how can he), ask him kindly to go back and reduce the badly torn ends toward the house at the very least on his dime to reduce future risk. Without a common reference, the conversation will go nowhere for either of you. Get the BMP.
fwiw, I'd have made reduction/thinning cuts to make it more symmetrical and storm-resistant, and to keep air moving in the crown, maybe 10-15% overall. I've done a few mature podocarpus but not one that big, so I ain't expert enough to go drown someone's goldfish. You guys are cold!
O and Courville, you are in an exalted state (MA, not your consciousness), so your slams against ISA are based on a skewed perspective. I don't begrudge a dime I've sent in, and I don't expect them to police hack work like this.
They and ANSI produce the rulebooks--it's up to us to use them, professionally.
O and...did anyone look at the lower half of the tree? How are the roots?
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Shockingly poor is all I can say about the job.
I would suggest having the boss out and asking about the raised issues. I am curious about what what written into the contract. Print out this thread for support during the conversation.
I would request return of payment and re-"pruning" of the tears.
I'm curious about the verification of credentials, and the price paid for the work.
An interesting bit of info on Podocarpus from Wiki. Gondwanaland and all.
Podocarpus and the Podocarpaceae were endemic to the ancient supercontinent of Gondwana, which broke up into Africa, South America, India, Australia-New Guinea, New Zealand, and New Caledonia between 105 and 45 million years ago. Podocarpus is a characteristic tree of the Antarctic flora, which originated in the cool, moist climate of southern Gondwana, and elements of the flora survive in the humid temperate regions of the former supercontinent. As the continents drifted north and became drier and hotter, Podocarps and other members of the Antarctic flora generally retreated to humid regions, especially in Australia, where sclerophyll genera like Acacia and Eucalyptus became predominant, and the old Antarctic flora retreated to pockets that presently cover only 2% of the continent. As Australia drifted north toward Asia, the collision pushed up the Indonesian archipelago and the mountains of New Guinea, which allowed podocarp species to hop across the narrow straits into humid Asia, with P. macrophyllus reaching north to southern China and Japan. The flora of Malesia, which includes the Malay peninsula, Indonesia, the Philippines, and New Guinea, is generally derived from Asia but includes many elements of the old Gondwana flora, including several other genera in the Podocarpaceae (Dacrycarpus, Dacrydium, Falcatifolium, Nageia, Phyllocladus, and the Malesian endemic Sundacarpus), and also Agathis in the Araucariaceae.
I would suggest having the boss out and asking about the raised issues. I am curious about what what written into the contract. Print out this thread for support during the conversation.
I would request return of payment and re-"pruning" of the tears.
I'm curious about the verification of credentials, and the price paid for the work.
An interesting bit of info on Podocarpus from Wiki. Gondwanaland and all.
Podocarpus and the Podocarpaceae were endemic to the ancient supercontinent of Gondwana, which broke up into Africa, South America, India, Australia-New Guinea, New Zealand, and New Caledonia between 105 and 45 million years ago. Podocarpus is a characteristic tree of the Antarctic flora, which originated in the cool, moist climate of southern Gondwana, and elements of the flora survive in the humid temperate regions of the former supercontinent. As the continents drifted north and became drier and hotter, Podocarps and other members of the Antarctic flora generally retreated to humid regions, especially in Australia, where sclerophyll genera like Acacia and Eucalyptus became predominant, and the old Antarctic flora retreated to pockets that presently cover only 2% of the continent. As Australia drifted north toward Asia, the collision pushed up the Indonesian archipelago and the mountains of New Guinea, which allowed podocarp species to hop across the narrow straits into humid Asia, with P. macrophyllus reaching north to southern China and Japan. The flora of Malesia, which includes the Malay peninsula, Indonesia, the Philippines, and New Guinea, is generally derived from Asia but includes many elements of the old Gondwana flora, including several other genera in the Podocarpaceae (Dacrycarpus, Dacrydium, Falcatifolium, Nageia, Phyllocladus, and the Malesian endemic Sundacarpus), and also Agathis in the Araucariaceae.
Thanks for the advice, (keep it coming).
The owner specifically asked for the arborist to lift and thin the crown, not a whole lot.
The roots are ok, root crown is not buried, but he did not dig around there when doing the estimate. (I don't know if it happened during the job.
Friends recently spoke with him, thanking him for the nice clean up (there was a lot to clean up!) and before airing any grievances he mentioned that once they started lifting the crown away from the roof, they noticed how unbalanced the tree was - with a lot of growth away from the house.
He's coming by tomorrow, but I won't be around to speak with him directly but I have passed this advice on to my friends. Thanks.
The owner specifically asked for the arborist to lift and thin the crown, not a whole lot.
The roots are ok, root crown is not buried, but he did not dig around there when doing the estimate. (I don't know if it happened during the job.
Friends recently spoke with him, thanking him for the nice clean up (there was a lot to clean up!) and before airing any grievances he mentioned that once they started lifting the crown away from the roof, they noticed how unbalanced the tree was - with a lot of growth away from the house.
He's coming by tomorrow, but I won't be around to speak with him directly but I have passed this advice on to my friends. Thanks.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
He lifted the crown, did a crown reduction , thinned it out, looked up its skirt and tickled the crotch.
Isn't much he didn't do.
I'm with Blinky, clear the house , crown CLEAN anything over a couple of inches in diameter. Probably 1/10th the brush to haul and the tree would still be healthy. I agree with Gerald that the tree will grow out and be fin but I also think those areas will need a crown restoration....tons of money can be spent "fixing this crap"
I do alot of crown restores on trees that were topped/reduced.
I don't mind tying in above on a species that compartmentalizes well but some Id rather not...call a crane and kill it
Isn't much he didn't do.
I'm with Blinky, clear the house , crown CLEAN anything over a couple of inches in diameter. Probably 1/10th the brush to haul and the tree would still be healthy. I agree with Gerald that the tree will grow out and be fin but I also think those areas will need a crown restoration....tons of money can be spent "fixing this crap"
I do alot of crown restores on trees that were topped/reduced.
I don't mind tying in above on a species that compartmentalizes well but some Id rather not...call a crane and kill it
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
then again im from Phoenix
- Location
- NW Chicago subburbs, Illinois
Jebus that's terrible. You should go throw the ANSI standards at their head.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
ISA is a money pit!
[/ QUOTE ]
Try mailing in your complaint with a check for $75 so their mail sniffers will be sure to find it!
ISA is a money pit!
[/ QUOTE ]
Try mailing in your complaint with a check for $75 so their mail sniffers will be sure to find it!
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