What would you do?/ trees at my new(old) house

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from the looks of the shadows it seems the basswood is on the south side and gives valuable shade, with those nice big leaves. once you scoop out the rot, shove a yardstick in there and post the numbers, okay?

The old guideline of t/r <.3 is not the only thing to consider here (if it should be considered at all). Read Jerry Bond's AN paper linked in his saprot thread.

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You cant be serious? He said he can fit his whole arm inside the decay pocket. You dont think its going to do anything except get worse do you? The tree has crappy form, substantial root collar decay, multiple targets and your defense is how much shade it provides?

Noel, what would you recommend if you were asked to consult about this tree for a client?
 
House is 50+ years old, patio seems same age. lots of cracks but not much heaving in the patio. I got in this afternoon and scooped a bunch of wet goo out of the middle of the tree, and I could poke a screwdriver in all the wood inside the hole as well. I would say that the outside perimeter is solid around 70% of the circumference of the tree. As for reduction, when I moved in in June, we cut the broken out of the trees, there are still some wounds that need cleaned up. My estimate is that the tree lost at least 30% of its crown between 2007 and 2008 ice. A lot of the top is already thick sprouting, I would be leary of taking too much more off of it for at least another year, other than thinning some of the crowded sprouts.
The base of the tree has lapped over the concrete circle in places, cutting the concrete out would probably cause more damage than good, I think.
 
remove it while it is still some what safe. that tree is definitely on the decline it looks sickley. some people are gonna tell you to patch it. noway you build a house on a rotten foundation. seriously that tree would be gone.
 
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Noel, what would you recommend if you were asked to consult about this tree for a client?

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I would be finding out what their risk tolerance is. Some folks are scared of perfectly healthy trees, others refuse to remove a tree that puts their property in imminent danger. I am somewhere in between, I have a pretty high risk tolerance for the house, but not for my family or my life. My bedroom is that wing just left of the tree, girls rooms are on the other end of the house. I am currently planning on keeping the tree and monitoring, but I might end up taking it out to fix the patio or put in a deck over the patio. This is why I wanted to see what other arborists thought of it. Thanks for all your imput so far!
 
Confined root system and collar decay aside,Its only a matter of time before the wounds from 07 start to present problems.That much rotting Tilia over a high value target would be grounds for removal, especially with the kind of spring and summer storms that roll through the area. Its just too close to the house.I say take it down before it it becomes too much of a chore to do so.
 
its not gonna get any better. its only a matter of time before it comes down. it would be much safier and easier if it came down on your terms
 
Sorry to hear about the concrete! I think it is the death blow. Stability is the main concern. Here is the prob. From the pictures it looks like the tree is leaning over the house. Meaning the tension side is away from the house. The 30% non sound wood is on the opposite side of the lean or away from the house. Wood fiber is much stronger under tension than compression. In theory tree is already predisposed to fall toward the house, even without the lopsided canopy. The tension wood is missing. To further complicate the matter the concrete poses a significant problem. Not only dose it weaken the tree at the point of girdling but as the cambial layer expands, eventually it will die. The tree has grown with the support of the concrete; and like a tree becomes dependent on a cable or brace so to has it adjusted for the concrete. Removing the concrete is critical to survival but must be done with caution and forethought. Also from the sound of it, to bring the risk factor into acceptable range you need an additional reduction. I would focus on the problem of the concrete or all is lost.
 
noel don't be too shy about removing concrete--essential step for diagnosis. unless the tree has swallowed it you can chip it and carefully wiggle pieces out of the bark without much if any collateral damage.

"You cant be serious? He said he can fit his whole arm inside the decay pocket. You dont think its going to do anything except get worse do you? The tree has crappy form, substantial root collar decay, multiple targets..."

tophop, I've kept trees so hollow that I could crawl my whole fat body into, stand up, and do the hokey-pokey. (attached) It may get better, define crappy, ask owner re targets and risk tolerance etc. and unless it is YOUR tree, let the owner decide. Both the inspection and the listing of management options must be systematic to be credible.
 

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Also I agree the t/r thing is of no use. There are much more important factors in statics. too much to list.

[/ QUOTE ]it is amazing how data-starved our trade is, and how many trees get condemned by idiots who "need a number" and cannot see the tree. heres the link, again.
 

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Guymayor thank you for the attachment I’ll file and read later. I agree with your assessment there is often a multitude of options available to manage risk. I have seen some scary hollow trees that have been saved and some really cool ones too. The big problem is there’s no “one size fits all” cure or answer if you will. We have a need to quantify and at the present we have no easy or reliable way to do so.

I do also agree with your statement about removal of the concrete. In this case and with the info available to me, I feel the removal of the concrete is critical. Easer said than done I’m sure. If it can be accomplished and the inspection yields positive news, then I would turn attention to the reduction and recreation of healthy eco for root system.
 
Noel has a bit of a problem here, when he mentioned that he would accept a certain amount of risk. He, as a arborist (CA/BCMA) may have issues in successfully filing a damage claim in the event the tree fails. Due Diligence is the scape goat that insurance companies use IF they decide not to honor an insurance policy. It doesn't matter to the insurance company how much risk the tree owner is willing to accept. If the tree were to fail, would they pay, and is he willing to bet his property and the lives of his family on the MATURE tree, that has been abused????

Trees, IMO have a finite life. According to Dr. Kim Coder, the best thing we can do for a tree is give it SPACE. This tree is growing very close to the home, and has had the roots impeded by cement.

I would like to know IF the trees in question were considered assets or liabilities, when Noel made an offer to purchase.
 
Maybe you could use the concrete from the patio to fill the cavity in the base of the tree..... people preservation first, tree preservation next. Years ago, before I discovered treebuzz, I(the Co. I was working for) removed a very large basswood next to an old three story home. The diameter was every bit of 60 inches and the height was give or take close to 100 foot. I remember saving a honey bee colony and making the final stump cut with an stihl 026. Walked it in a circle, thickest part maybe 18 inches. That thing (with)stood hollow for a very long time. Removal is unavoidable, its just a matter of when you decide to do it. I wish I had a footlocking practice tree.
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If you do determine that the tree can be kept for a while I'd say look at it as an old veteran and prune accordingly.
If that much crown came out the tree should be more stable without that upper lever arm like Guy said.

Tilia can be a long lived tree. Depending on you risk tolerance it looks to me like you could get a lot more years out of it....but you will be nibbling at it for sure.

I just got a very cool set of pics from Neville Fay that I will try to post...shows a tree that looked like a goner and many years later a nice tree.
 
Hey Scott, long time no see. I spent some time studying the old dude today, and the value/liability of it. The roof and skylights on the upper patio are leaking from falling limbs. The lower patio is a trip hazard in 3-4 places. The patio and gutters are constantly covered, with sticks, flowers, petals, seed balls, and leaves. It literally drops stuff from June thru December solid.

On the other hand..... when it has leaves on, my patio is a shady canopy. I know the tree has value, I just have to figure out if the value is more than the liability to ME. I also know that if I was bidding this tree for removal, it would be close to 2K, so I'm lucky that I can get it done for just the cost of my men and equipment for a day.

I am discovering that this decision is a lot easier when it is someone else's tree. You can look at it objectively and help them make a decision based on the risk factors and their tolerance. I would like to see it gone, but I can't get past my attachment to it. kinda weird.
 
there was a young climber named Noel
who loved trees deep in his soul
and Miria of fire
set off his desire
and now they have 2 beautiful foal
 
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