What makes a tree hack?

G

Greenman

Location
Minnesota
Hack or pro, what makes a tree hack?
Has the bar been raised to the point that use of a pole saw while climbing makes you a hack?
Can we say use of a chain saw when pruning makes you a hack?
Or is the deciding factor whether or not you use your gaffs when pruning?
What about proper cuts? Yes every one. Does this separate hack from pro?
I reserve my opinion now to see what others opinion might be. T
 
my opinion would be ,a hack or wacker is a person with no regard for professionalism or the tree .his/her concern is not to learn or better themselves but only about money.They will still top trees and spike them and tell the client that its ok no problem .
Polesaw ,chainsaw ,handsaw these are tools,its the hands that use them that are in question.
 
My definition of a hack is someone who has no knowledge of arborculture but calls himself an arborist. A guy who will hook a tree on the backside(so the cust can't see it), or a guy who would not think twice about "skeetering" the tree with a chainsaw. Unfortunatly these guys are out there and the tend to get jobs being the lowest bidder. It makes me sick to see this. It all has to with education. Educating the customer as well as "The Hackers". Most of which do not want to hear it. Love me now, hate me later is what the hackers will face. Hate me now, love me later is what the educated arborist will benefit from.
 
The so called hacker, can be a professional as well as none professional.I ve seen certified arborist top, spike, strip, head back drasticly and make totally improper cuts. Why do they disreguard the rules of prunning? Time and money! and education as you folks said. The employer may be educated , but are the employees he sent out to do the work? The tools we use as arborist are not bad, its how and when there being used that can make a job looked hacked or not. Yes, a chinsaw does make a more ragged cut than a handsaw, but I hate to say it, I'm not going to make a 24" finnal cut with a handsaw.I 've seen this subject be flip flopped both ways.
 
I agree, there are no bad tools. I use pole saws, chainsaws, pole pruners... It is all in how you use the tool that counts.

If you just stand in the inner crotches and raise and gut...

If you climb the tips and use the pole say to get the small branches the you can get a good angle on, it just makes it more efficient. Just pull the hangers out
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Climbing out to every cut so you can use your Zubat is not very efficient, no matter how well you climb.
 
A tree hack, like pornography, is hard to define but you know it when you see it. A guy I work with, used to work with someone who did tree work for 15 years and didn't know what a pole saw was. He spiked up everything and took out the top, and
wondered why he could never get into the nicer neighborhoods.
I have the luxury of having another climber on the crew that loves to take his time and thin out a tree with 1000 little cuts. He's also the best I've seen at shaping large white pines, branch by branch. I don't have the patience for that, and much prefer the challenge of engineering a technical takedown, which he is very slow at. So he does the trees that suit his style and I do the ones that suit mine. Finding the right person for the right job creates harmony.
Speaking of hackers, I've noticed that oaks seem to be particularly prone to decline
from being spiked years before. Also heard that it's "OK" to spike redwoods. Anyone knows the science or have any relevant observations to share?
Daniel
 
Good points, I don’t know that there is an absolute to the question. A lot of it depends on your geographic location or the company you work for. It is a fact regardless of years of experience, if you want to become a better climber leave the pole saw and chain saw on the ground but to make a blanket statement such as never use these tools for trimming would cause people to jump down my throat with hundreds of scenarios that required the tools. I agree with Roachy it’s the person using the tool improperly that does the damage. In my opinion it is exceedingly difficult even for a “pro” to make proper cuts with a pole saw. I can’t remember the last time I used a pole saw in the tree. I believe a “hack” is someone who knows they are doing wrong and continues. Tony
 
Beore I get into this spiking discussion, I want everyone to turn off the pilot lights on their flame throwers
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My defintion of a professional is pretty simple: Anyone who gets paid for doing work. That's why we have professional hacks.

It's not the tools that make a person a good pruner, its the use of the tools. Does the use of a microwave discount the ability of the chef? How about a pilot who can handle a stick in a wood/fabric airplane? I'd rather go paddling with someone who can handle an aluminum canoe than a clod in a custom made strip or Kevlar canoe.

Spiking damages trees. No discussion there. Does spiking wound trees? Yup, if the spike goes through the bark, into the cambium. Look at Jerry Beranek's book, The General Fundaemntals of Tree Work on pages 95-97 for a good discussion and pictures of spike wounds. On thick barked trees and using short spikes the climber should never wound the tree but would cause damage to the bark. This does not condone the use of spikes for any pruning even in thick barked trees.

Tom

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Tom Dunlap ]
 
I dont think there is enough education with the homeowners on how there trees should be properly worked on.I explain all the time that the spikes only get put on for removeles but the word does not seem to get out to the public but oh well I'll just keep footlocking till the cows come home.
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Sorry, greenman, I disagree. A polesaw is an invaluable tool, especially in, say, a giant elm, or any conifer. Use them all the time, in all types of trees, if the structure warrants it. I'd say 80-90 percent of my cuts are correct. Many are under one inch, where a bit of a stub or slightly wrong angle isn't a problem.

On our 120 tree elm contract, some of which are 115 feet tall and 100 feet wide, even with a bucket truck and 21 foot silkey polesaw, reaching all the deadwood is still extremely difficult. Try it without a polesaw. Impossible, unless you want to triple the time spent!!

[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Roger Barnett ]
 
pole saw use will always start a debate.I personally dont like to use one but will if its to pull hangers or to snap the tiny dead wood out.I do alot of elms and dont use one,but would never stop someone else from doing so given they used it properly and not as a crutch.I just think I do a better job of pruning without a pole saw.I cant stand dog ears.
 
Rodger, that is great you disagree, and I have no problem with that. I wonder if others agree that it is acceptable to improperly prune 10-20 percent of the time? The other thing you state as fact is that it would take three times as long with out a pole saw. I think the problem with this statement is that you did not mention the “you factor.” It may take “you” three times longer but this would simply not be true for everyone. The elm trees you talk about sound wonderful. A true dream job for a climber, it brings thoughts of big swings and long walks to mind. I think that as absurd as you think pruning this tree without a pole saw would be, others might believe that it would be crazy to attempt such a prune while trailing a 21 foot pole saw. In my opinion it would take me three times as long with a pole saw.
I think we all need to be careful to separate opinion from fact.
I in no way intended to offend you Rodger and if I did, I apologize.
Tony
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Having spent 18 years in line clearance work I've seen the spectrum of this discussion. Too bad, most line clearance trimming is hack work. Required minumum clearances don't leave much choice where to cut. And all too often the trees near powerlines reflect extremely poor prunning and trimming practices. Even within the profession you'll find varing degrees of opinion as to what's good, what's bad and what is acceptable. My rule of thumb was "If the tree is going to look like hell, then it should be removed." Wether right or wrong, when my work was done I tried to leave my trees still looking like trees.
In the private sector here, on the Mendocino coast, 90 percent of the work done to trees is removal. The rest done can well be considered hack work. Excessive thinning and topping. And everything imaginable inbetween. The trees on the coast are predominately conifers and grow four to six feet a year. Your ocean view today will be gone in few years. It's so cool on the coast and shade is not sought after. Brutle tree work is the result.
Over the hill, only thirty miles, broad oaks and hardwoods grow. Totally different than on the coast. It's hot there and people want their shade trees. So many introduced species too. There you will find more tree care being performed than on the coast. And to every degree imaginable. Some good and some hack.
On a positive note, over the last thirty years here I seen the trend in the industry move more to preservation than destruction. When it comes to that, you guys through the midwest and eastcoast have lead the way. It's getting better here. And forums like this one is one of the reasons why it is. keep the information moving.
 
My opinion of a hacker is as follows. Someone who leaves huge tear marks in trees as a rsult of no under cut. Spiking live trees. Topping needlessly or hat racking so to speak. Someone who is nototrious for property damage.
 
Greenman,

No offense taken.

However, my climbing skills and ability to get anywhere in a tree are second to none, I guarantee you. I'm into production AND quality, as there are few if any folks with higher standards.

Come out west, I'll put you in a 140 foot doug fir with 20-40 foot long branches every two feet. You're welcome to try to prune that tree to my specifications without a polesaw. I'll be starting up the third one while you're finishing the first, most likely. Primary cuts are hundreds of 1/8-3/4 inch duff, with 0-5cuts per limb that are over 1.5 inches, sometimes near the end of the branch.

gotta go bid on a craftsman on ebay, that , believe it of not, is the class of the 10 lb chainsaws. It a Solo in disguise, and blows all others away.
 
Not being a hack takes heart and education.

Proffessional hack is pretty good way of putting it about some!

i haven't talked to anyone else around me not using spikes while climbing; i don't know everyone but...............

i'd like to say if you didn't recognize what the 3 bunches of mistletoe that were 2' across and near you for 3 hrs. was; you might be a hack. That stuff is so terrible and 'contaigeous'; and unless there's loads of it, doesn't even take any room in the load, but many guys here leave it!

i'm with the polesaw for small stuff, especially going after one target limb, and rounding it out with courtesy work quickly etc. i like to think i have about 2' of reach, 8' of pole for a 20' circle of quick dressing sometimes after main cuts in an area. Some times making it rain lil'dead stuff etc. i guess all fine woodwork should be 'finished' on the show side? They're also real good on reaching and threading lines.

Of course i believe you should take all the information in and make intelligent choices and targets to each situation. And not every branch has to stay. That perhaps some times; the best way a tree can be trimmed for its own health, as well as for the health and appreciation of its kind; the largest organisms to ever wander are earth is to appeal to its stewards.

-KC
 
Rodger that’s incredible I would love to come out west to climb along side of you. I have never been in a 140’ doug fir and being a Euc man with strong oak tendencies I could hardly step away from such a challenge. And with the guarantee of climbing with the best climber in the world how could I refuse. After working with Beddes Strasser over the years and learning so much I cant wait to now work with you, I bet I could learn a ton. I look forward to the chance to see you do three trees for every one I do. What an opportunity when can we set this up?

Greenman
 
It is probibly easire to define a non-hack, one who studies the trade and prunes the tree in a manner that reflects the natural growth patterns of the plant. Who when clearance trimming is necesary takes into concideration the structure of the tree and the effects of the work needed.

BTW the Silky 21 ft saw telescopes and is around 8 ft long when clesed.

Roger, how have you modified yours so you can hang it in the tree? Jerry Smith in In Jackson WI fabricated a steel hook for his. I have the 9ft Zubat and currently use a sling and 'biner to hang in.
 
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