West Coast Arborists

Flex Abednego

Flex Abednego

Branched out member
Location
N Ca
hey guys, i've been messing around with tree work for the last five or so years, mostly friends of friends and their neighbors type jobs. started off because i wanted something to do that was outside and physically demanding to do when i was in between commercial fishing seasons. began with a sherrill catalog and then youtube and lurking treebuzz then bought some spurs, a flipline, and trueblue and hacked a few redwoods from the top down. i decided this was something i liked and tried to find a job with a local company. found a prominent one here looking for a guy and we talked over the phone, i went for an interview and was asked where id like to be in 5 yrs. i said eventually it was my goal to run my own business which turned into a major shit storm, my bad i guess. ended up working for another local company and the guy was super cool but EVERYTHING was tautline hitch, spurs, & flipline. which is cool but i wanted more and after dungenness season ended i never went back. so i started doing my own thing, bought a bit of gear here and there, learning lessons as they came.

now i'm 36 and my girlfriend and i just had a little one (girl, flex abednego was going to be the name if she was a he and mom didn't make it through labor or suddenly realized that i single handedly pick the greatest name in the world). suddenly leaving for 2-4 months for work isn't as acceptable and im back to looking at the arborculture industry as a strong contender for my next career. but in most practical senses im a noob with 5-7 grand in saws and cool gear. i desperately want to avoid being a hack, and have bought gerry b's working climber and some study guides etc. i feel the next step is to work with some bad ass motherfuckers, who know exactly what they're doing and do it like nobodys business.

i'd like to get shown the ropes and learn from some experienced, successful, hardworking crews. i'm not looking for a job. i'm looking for hands on education/ experience with industry savy folks who don't mind someone who intends on entering the industry. i live in arcata ca and plan on moving somewhere my girlfriend can finish here ASL schooling next year (like seattle, portland, santa barbara). im willing to drive anywhere in oregon, washington, or california and spend a few days. i don't expect payment. i don't mind dragging brush. i am slow at climbing.
if anyone is interested please let me know and i'll try and make arrangements
thanks
hope i don't sound like a kook
 
Art and science of practical rigging by rip Tompkins an ken Palmer (the books and DVDs) were some of the best learning tools i could suggest
 
The western chapter of ISA has some good programs throughout the year and throughout CA. The upcoming annual chapter conference is at Yosemite at the end of April/beginning of May.
 
Well, it's a little kooky. But there is no such thing as normal, so whatever. What you are looking for might be out there. You might have to do some searching though. And you might get some people telling you you're a kook. But good on you trying to do things properly. If you can't find other companies, just find ways to educate yourself while getting started. The buzz, workshops (isa,wesspur, North American training solutions, Canadian stuff that I don't know about, even climbing comps) get to as many industry events as possible and talk to as many people as possible. You will find assholes... You will also find some incredibly knowledgable and supportive individuals. Who may have opportunities for you or just sage advice.
 
Jem4417 said:
Art and science of practical rigging by rip Tompkins an ken Palmer (the books and DVDs) were some of the best learning tools i could suggest
Click to expand...
yeah i met rip at the texas training seminar i went to 4-5 years ago. it was well worth the trip to get to demo gear before i put in my first big gear order. Rip was a cool guy and i wish i would have attempted to stay in touch. i'll check out the book, but really what im after is something like in the fishing industry when you work for a highliner and find out there is a entirely different level of production and process than working on a mid range boat.
 
KTSmith said:
The western chapter of ISA has some good programs throughout the year and throughout CA. The upcoming annual chapter conference is at Yosemite at the end of April/beginning of May.
Click to expand...
thanks. i was not aware of this and if i don't head to ak for salmon i will find a way to go
 
Flex Abednego said:
hey guys, i've been messing around with tree work for the last five or so years, mostly friends of friends and their neighbors type jobs. started off because i wanted something to do that was outside and physically demanding to do when i was in between commercial fishing seasons. began with a sherrill catalog and then youtube and lurking treebuzz then bought some spurs, a flipline, and trueblue and hacked a few redwoods from the top down. i decided this was something i liked and tried to find a job with a local company. found a prominent one here looking for a guy and we talked over the phone, i went for an interview and was asked where id like to be in 5 yrs. i said eventually it was my goal to run my own business which turned into a major shit storm, my bad i guess. ended up working for another local company and the guy was super cool but EVERYTHING was tautline hitch, spurs, & flipline. which is cool but i wanted more and after dungenness season ended i never went back. so i started doing my own thing, bought a bit of gear here and there, learning lessons as they came.

now i'm 36 and my girlfriend and i just had a little one (girl, flex abednego was going to be the name if she was a he and mom didn't make it through labor or suddenly realized that i single handedly pick the greatest name in the world). suddenly leaving for 2-4 months for work isn't as acceptable and im back to looking at the arborculture industry as a strong contender for my next career. but in most practical senses im a noob with 5-7 grand in saws and cool gear. i desperately want to avoid being a hack, and have bought gerry b's working climber and some study guides etc. i feel the next step is to work with some bad ass motherfuckers, who know exactly what they're doing and do it like nobodys business.

i'd like to get shown the ropes and learn from some experienced, successful, hardworking crews. i'm not looking for a job. i'm looking for hands on education/ experience with industry savy folks who don't mind someone who intends on entering the industry. i live in arcata ca and plan on moving somewhere my girlfriend can finish here ASL schooling next year (like seattle, portland, santa barbara). im willing to drive anywhere in oregon, washington, or california and spend a few days. i don't expect payment. i don't mind dragging brush. i am slow at climbing.
if anyone is interested please let me know and i'll try and make arrangements
thanks
hope i don't sound like a kook
Click to expand...

Good luck, man, I hope you find someone willing. Maybe a willingness to take a permanent position, starting out as a new groundie, looking to become a climber when they feel you are ready, or they are in desperate need of someone to fill in as a climber would help to get your foot in the door.

I'm not someone with a huge amount of experience at interviewing, but I think I can figure out what it is you should have said during that first interview. You need to put yourself into the shoes of the man behind the desk.

When he asked you about where you'd like to see yourself in five years, what I think he wants to hear from you is that you hope to have helped him grow his business tremendously by that time, and that you would hope to at least be a crew leader/foreman that is running work and bringing big money into HIS COMPANY. Maybe even a superintendent, responsible for running multiple foreman. A force multiplier, as it were.

The absolute LAST THING the guy wants to hear, in my opinion, is how, after he takes the time to train you for years, and gets you working effectively FOR HIM, you intend to leave and take everything he's taught you in order to try to directly compete with him in his own home market.

The least scrupulous type of person that would do something like that, would also attempt to steal all of his best customers on the way out the door. The man with whom you interviewed has probably repeatedly gone through the process of training people for years, only to lose them once they really become of value. Can you see why your statement might have touched a nerve with him?

I think this is why so many companies say "We don't want to train anybody. It is time consuming and painful to have to constantly train new people. But how is anyone ever going to get a start if absolutely nobody will train anybody?

Bixler is on this site right now, saying he does not want to have to pay that price. He wants that price to have already been borne by someone else, before you ever get to his door. I'm not knocking Bixler; he's entitled to want what he wants. It just makes it hard on the new guys who want to get a start when nobody wants to train. It is part of the reason for the existence of the various trade unions; the apprenticeship system is in place in an organized fashion in order to train the next generation and carry on the craft.

In the absence of that system, you need to understand that if you find the rare cat that is actually willing to spend years training you, he's going to want you to stick around for the long haul. Whether that seems fair or not is up to you. Maybe the most ethical thing to do, if you really do have a drive to run your own business, is to continue to train yourself in the way that you have so far, learn how to make your own rain (win jobs), build up your skills and equipment in a safe and judicious manner and succeed on your own merits.

I think, bottom line, nobody wants to train their competition.

Good fortune.

Tim
 
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macswan said:
Well, it's a little kooky. But there is no such thing as normal, so whatever. What you are looking for might be out there. You might have to do some searching though. And you might get some people telling you you're a kook. But good on you trying to do things properly. If you can't find other companies, just find ways to educate yourself while getting started. The buzz, workshops (isa,wesspur, North American training solutions, Canadian stuff that I don't know about, even climbing comps) get to as many industry events as possible and talk to as many people as possible. You will find assholes... You will also find some incredibly knowledgable and supportive individuals. Who may have opportunities for you or just sage advice.
Click to expand...
i originally hoped to find some guys locally but i've got the feeling that i'd learn more and not be seen as a potential competitor if i can get my schooling from established folks outside my area
 
TimBr,
man i totally hear you. i was only trying to be honest with the interviewers. its the BEST policy
i have put effort into my own training but never on a consistent enough basis because of my reliance on fishing. i own 4 power saws 2 polesaws 2 handsaws a bigshot, apta, 2 harnesses, 2 helmets, 5:1 system, block, whoopie, loopie, portawrap, slings,micropulleys, carabiners etc.
true i've probably only climbed and wrecked ~50 trees but im not coming to the job with a pair of boots and gloves.
reality is i'm 36 with a family to support so i can't very well take a full time job for $12 hr or anything like that.

i guess really my only goal is to meet some folks who don't mind inviting me to their town and showing me how they get things done
 
Flex Abednego said:
TimBr,
man i totally hear you. i was only trying to be honest with the interviewers. its the BEST policy
i have put effort into my own training but never on a consistent enough basis because of my reliance on fishing. i own 4 power saws 2 polesaws 2 handsaws a bigshot, apta, 2 harnesses, 2 helmets, 5:1 system, block, whoopie, loopie, portawrap, slings,micropulleys, carabiners etc.
true i've probably only climbed and wrecked ~50 trees but im not coming to the job with a pair of boots and gloves.
reality is i'm 36 with a family to support so i can't very well take a full time job for $12 hr or anything like that.

i guess really my only goal is to meet some folks who don't mind inviting me to their town and showing me how they get things done
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand, and to be honest myself, I admire you. I think you are absolutely kicking ass. Your own qualifications far exceed mine; I'm a guy who only started climbing a couple of years ago, and is older than you by quite a bit, with much less gear and experience.

You are right about being honest. It is too bad that the business owner that interviewed you did not manage to keep his cool, and sit back and consider that everything is subject to negotiation. I know that all anyone ever wants is a good deal.

From reading what you've said and what I've seen some others say about the pay issue, it seems sometimes the owners want too much of a good deal on their side of the equation, and for a long time, too. Then they get mad when guys who feel like they've been getting gouged for a long time decide to move on. I talked face to face with an arborist I bumped into once, who said he only got a raise when he'd already made the decision to leave, because he could not afford to stay anymore for the low wages he was making. When the boss said "OK, OK, I'll bump your pay up to ...." if you'll stay, the young arborist realized that he'd been working for less than he was worth for months, if not years, and the boss was fully aware of that fact. Loyalty goes both ways, and you can't expect it from people that you basically cheat out of fair compensation for their services. Maybe the guy who lost his cool with you loses people because he deserves to lose them.

I think you might have the right idea about traveling in order to get to a place where someone will not fear you as potential competition. I think I've read on this forum where some guys from this forum get together once in awhile just to share a work experience. Maybe someone from this forum, or one of the other ones on the internet, would be willing to let you hang out with them for awhile. I don't know if I'll get in trouble for saying this or not, but there's a couple of guys on the Tree House forum that live and work in Washington state, and maybe Oregon. Maybe they'd be willing to let you have a go.

I truly wish you the best in this pursuit.

Tim
 
Flex I liked your original post just fine. If you want to learn something and have a person feel like he is not training up his competition then going out of the area where you live is a great idea.

When I first got interested in tree work I wanted to work with one particular company that was mostly a family operation. I called and asked them about work as a climber and they said they didn't have any openings. I said how about if I come down and work for you for a week for free and if you see you can make money hiring me on, fine, if not, no hard feelings. He said, Ok come on down.

I'll PM you a ph no. and we'll see if I know anything you want to learn.

By the way Bixler, and every other company I know have plenty of work that they won't have to spend a lot of time training a person to do. And if while a person is doing some of that they learn some tricks and techniques that they specificaly were after...well then everybody is happy. Your ability to do that came across in your post too. (I went back to Maryland and worked for Xman for a couple of weeks last year to learn more about X Rigging Rings and big rigging.)

Next step would be to search out specific companies you want to do this with (possibly on the forum) and make the offer directly to them.
 
Tim,
loyalty definitely goes both ways, many circumstances in fishing are analogous to this industry it seems. its really hard to find crew and almost impossible to find good crew without "rough edges". the hard cases are the best workers and the best captains are the ones who somehow push you beyond your breaking point without getting anybody hurt. i like that.
i've barely lurked treehouse but maybe ill look. and thanks for the best wishes and ditto

Merle,
i just finished working down there for this crab season. please pm me, that sounds awesome. there is certainly some specific folks on here i would love to learn from. i've sent one guy up in seattle area an email a few years ago but didn't do my usual hound'em till they give in routine, again i went back to fishing. Bixler looks cool, i'd go that way and visit friends too. like i said, really anybody who wants to show me how they do it, i'd be excited to come and hope i walk away with a few buddies and some lessons.

thanks for responding guys, i truly appreciate it
 
Flex your already doing what you gotta do to learn more starting this thread. ive met several of the guys on this site by reaching out the same way and have gotten a lot out of it. ive learned a lot from working with some of the guys on this site, and intend on continuing to reach out.

i went recreational climbing with some guys from here and learned so much just from a couple hours swing around a tree in the woods. i worked with some guys who exposed me to a level of tree work i was unfamiliar with, which left me needing to know and see more. the men on this site have raised the bar for me, and i think initiating this thread will lead to a similar experience for you if your open to whatever opportunities arise. good luck
 
And on that note, you live in arguably one of the top destination rec climbing (There, I have now used that phrase three times in life. I'm all about the paycheck at the end of the day.) locations. People are traveling here from all over to climb a big redwood etc., you could be a 'guide'. An amazing production arb/forester Stig was just here from Denmark with a couple of buddies. Another guy and his spouse were over from the UK months back. Bonner, Bixler, Xman and probably just about every arb can be bribed with good redwood climbing opportunities.
 
During an interview, or anywhere, utter frankness is not always the best policy.

There's a difference between honesty and full disclosure. Discretion is the better part of valor, and candor.
 
CutHighnLetFly,
thanks for your encouraging words, i really hope to have a similar experience. i've wanted to sign up and post something like this for a couple years, originally before the little one, do a full summer trip cross country and using couchsurfer.com.

Merle,
giants have just recently become of interest to me. i have had a hard time being motivated to rec climb other than testing out new gear, but i have vaguely thought of guiding eco tree climbs but just very recently. just bought a bdb and trying to figure out where i sit financially before i drop another $500 on 600' of ....vortex maybe. a crossbow would be nice too. it would be cool if we had a website like couchsurfer for arbs, or trades in general.

guymayor,
i always fuck that up. utter frankness seems to be an integral part of my personality which sometimes really gets me in hot water (mostly with my lady). it's something im learning to control as i get older and hopefully wiser
 
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Daniel,
i might do that. roger is the the guy up in seattle i emailed a couple yrs ago. i always liked the jobs he posted and he seemed like a genuine cool cat. got a job to wrap up for a buddy- 2 firs and 3 monterey pines. all climbing and rigging, powerlines should be down in the am weather permitting. have a phone interview for 2015 ak salmon seine season in the next couple days. if i take the job i will be flying up around early may.
 
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Took a shrimping gig that will end nov 1. Just got back from the TCIA SRT workshop in Sacramento. Met some more buzzers there. Learned a lot.
My fam and I plan on driving up to look around oregon at the end of shrimp season but maybe we will extend our trip and visit friends in port Townsend as well.
Anyway, I would be interested in coming up as soon as my season ends if you are still interested, possibly while we are scouting the PNW
 
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