Video: Quarter cut for Jedi warriors

Thanks for the demo, Ekka. I have read Dent's book and the wedging section is interesting...good to see some in action.

I have gotten some small plastic ones to try up in a tree sometime...plus an assortment of larger ones to try at the stump.

I watched a man use handhewn oak wedges last fall when I was at Katrina...he needed to break some large chunks in half so our saw could finish cutting thru them.
 

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..the trunk had sliced thru his shed/garage and the bottom half was inaccessible...he split the chunks at the end of our cut and then we could carefully finish the cuts.
 

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Thats a climbing saw Ekka not a ground felling saw, where are the rules. Big bucks if you are caught using them on the ground in some countries. A maximum of 1000 pounds in the UK.

We used the them same cut on Wednesday past to fell a big oak went over sweet.

Scotty
 
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Thats a climbing saw Ekka not a ground felling saw, where are the rules. Big bucks if you are caught using them on the ground in some countries. A maximum of 1000 pounds in the UK.

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Hahha, that would be a joke yeah? Fancy having a rule like that. It is a top handled chainsaw and sold as that, no where do I see a mark or rule that says it can only be used aloft. If indeed your country has such a rule I must say that is the weirdest thing I've heard in a long time.

Tell me this, in your country had I have put my climbing gear on and stepped up 2 inches above ground then it would have been OK (although more unsafe as you aren't on ground level)?

Or do they actually mean the timber you are cutting has to be on the ground ... ie you are not allowed to use it for bucking?

What about if you are working out of a bucket ... that's sort of like taking ground level with you? I think the rule makers in some countries need a psychiatrist.

Palms are highly corrosive on saws and using certain ones is beneficial to keep the damage control and replacement costs down.

Finally, it's my saw and I'll use it where-ever I feel like it ... sheeesh, what is the world coming too... but I did hear that the OHS in the UK is trying to mandate full body harnesses with a chest attachment point.

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We used the them same cut on Wednesday past to fell a big oak went over sweet.

Scotty

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It's a handy cut to know in the right circumstances that's for sure and in many instances saves roping.
 
Eric, where is your continuity?
You blab and rant on and on about your competitors breaking the rules, to the point of filming them working -

Yet when someone points the finger at you, your response is "its my saw, I'll use it how I like!"

Hardly consistent. whats it to be, upholder of the 'law' and rules, or free man doing what he likes?

I suspect your harrasment and filming of your competitors is simply down to envy that they are more succesfull than you.
 
To tell you the truth Ive cut many a tree down, and hardly ever used a wedge. I do think wedges are a great tool just never learned to use them. Ekka your video showed me something I never seen B4, Thanks, and your spielberg skills are far more entertaining and educmacating than any regular tree guy vids I know of. /forum/images/graemlins/blunt.gif

120770, You were joking right? That would be a rule to disobey, if you wern't . .. man, big brother must be a bich in your country. Too bad for you guys.

Thats/forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif
 
I have looked at some of the replies to this thread, and at the variation to the use of wedges with interest. Where you don't have to use a wedge, why would you bother. The use of a wedge for most trees is to "back your judgement" on a tree standing up straight or slight back lean. If a tree is sitting back I would use the "big yellow" wedge, or winch it over.

Unfortunately there has been a fatality and a reasonable contractor prosecuted for not useing a wedge by the Victorian WorkSafe. He was useing a 25 ton excavator to push with. It appears that the court believed the expert witness, and he said that, no tree should be felled without a wedge being used (regardless of what other methods employed).

The advise that was given to the court seems to have "won" the day, however flawed. I would be interested in what regulations apply to the use of wedges elsewhere. Do "expert" wittneses need industry experience or scrutiny?

I have spent many years as a contract faller to the logging industry and see this prosecution as a backward step.
 
thats nonsense....if i had the choice between a wedge or excavator id go with the excavator. whatever accident he had felling the tree was probably down to poor communication and felling technique, not the method emplyed to wedge the tree over.

mr ed....i think you probably hit the nail on the head!
 
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Eric, where is your continuity?
You blab and rant on and on about your competitors breaking the rules, to the point of filming them working -

Yet when someone points the finger at you, your response is "its my saw, I'll use it how I like!"

Hardly consistent. whats it to be, upholder of the 'law' and rules, or free man doing what he likes?

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you on about? There is no rules being broken here about using an 020 on the ground. And just in case some people have a mindset of "oh it's a climbing saw" too bad, I bought it and will use it where-ever I want. If you somehow confuse this with finger pointing and incontinuity you are truly a confused soul.

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I suspect your harrasment and filming of your competitors is simply down to envy that they are more succesfull than you.

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Suspect what you want ... it's clear to many that your mind wanders the voids of fantasy.

First, there was no harrassment or laws being broken and in one of the two videos a cop verified that.

Secondly your conclusion is merely speculative and most likely founded from your own beliefs and values. They certainly construe no facts but mere aberrations of your negative attacks.

Third, the video was shot ad-lib, in other words spontaneous without preparation or script ... this is what happened right here right now ... not like I went out to get a certain company etc ... see secondly above, more partaking in fantasy.

And for the record I dont think anyone is pointing the finger just stating a fact about certain rules in certain places ... and I was responding with what i thought of those rules.

So all in all it makes you look like a pretty big /forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif hey Ed? So, what will you do now, round up some support, cry on another Brits shoulder, go tell MB ... phew, wake up to yourself mate. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Attached is a copy of your last 2 weeks posting history, it's pretty clear harrassment and cyber stalking on your behalf.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
thats nonsense....if i had the choice between a wedge or excavator id go with the excavator. whatever accident he had felling the tree was probably down to poor communication and felling technique, not the method emplyed to wedge the tree over.

mr ed....i think you probably hit the nail on the head!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it is nonsense and obviously the prosecuter had a better lawyer than the defendent. The defendent should have called in a true expert witness ... but hey, money buys law they say.

Now Steve, regarding your support of Mr Ed's condition, be careful the road you choose, so far as I can see it's getting rougher for ya mate ... but they do say birds of a feather flock together so ........... choose carefully.
 
Thanks stevebullman, you summed up what I thought. It raised the question to me, what sort of tree person would I want to be expert wittness against me if I were unfortunate enough to be facing a similar problem? What do you think?
 
Graeme

It would be good to know all the facts but I'm speculating that similar to climbing they expect a back up. If you are roping they may expect to see wedges backing up the cut ... if the rope fails you have a second chance (maybe).

Also, in that specific instance perhaps a wedge used for back up may have prevented the incident ... perhaps the track of thought taken is that it's good sound practice to back up every cut with a wedge regardless and had that been done maybe a life saved.

And they would have dug to the centre of the earth to find an expert that would say that in court .. "oh yes, every felling cut should be backed up with a wedge, that's what we instruct and do in the field for decades".

Sad story, what are the relevant training authorities teaching in felling? Are they teaching that a wedge is rq'd as back up on machinery assisted pullovers/pushovers?

... now remember I'm speculating here; but what is the standard safe distance to be away from an excavators boom? If there is one then that may mean no more pushing with the bucket whilst some-one is cutting at the base.

Big can of worms here that's for sure. If the colleges dont teach wedge back up for every fell then you'll be OK but may still have conflict with the safe working distance of excavator booms etc.

When we did our large felling we had to back up with wedges but not in every instance. We used 4 wd's to pull over spars but still backed up in some cases. I dont remember a mandatory wedge back up for every fell though ... and nothing in my notes about it either ... however with leaners or cavities etc wedges are spec for back up ... so if it was a back leaner or side leaner etc yeah ... he's way out there with only the excavator.
 
Thats a good ? Ekka if you put your harness on and stepped 2 inches of the ground, to be honest I havent worked in the UK for the last 5-6 years been traveling and working round Continental Europe these past years. Yes it is ok to use them from a bucket truck, and in the UK I believe that you can not buy a top handled saw unless you have the appropiate climbing certificates, from the traing bodies that govern our industry, HSE, NPTC, LANTRA. These bodies were also concernd of the second hand sale of these such saws in question.

Been alot of talk, maybe, maybe to much talk this is not a fullbody harness song. That debate has been going for a long time apparently. But to my knowledge nothing has come to law as such.

It was also a reason why Stihl mabe a back handled MS200 as they were aware of the fact that they were being misused on the ground. Not to the fact also they are misused and mishandled in the tree also, look one hand rodeo style, for the cowboy in the tree.

Scotty
 
There was a proffesional faller killed in the UK about 5 years ago pushing a big beech tree over.
The biggest problem is the Machine driver trying to push the tree to soon. This will cause the hinge to fail prematurely, particularly if there is side lean.
Personaly, next to my boughton 12 tonne winch, I reckon an excavator is the best machine you can have for felling big trees. the trick is to get the machine to hold the tree (NOT push) until you have completed the back cut. then you can walk out of the danger zone and signal for the driver to push it over.
as an aside, I rarely use wedges. I have a porta hydraulic pack for pushing big trees over, but I rarely use it.

Eric, hows the old blood pressure doing? /forum/images/graemlins/pirate.gif /forum/images/graemlins/avid.gif
 
Mr Ed,

Can you elaborate or show pictures of your 'porta hydraulic pack' ?

The 'expert' on the other side can make or break a law suit. The one time I ended up in court for something that I did, I found that the 'expert' "they" had was not an expert but was able to make his case better than I could. I wasn't prepared to have him establish his expertise so I lost.
 
Tom, my hydraulic pack is a copy of the silvey setup. I have a hand pump, 10' of 1/4 inch hose, and 2 25 tonne jacks with 8 inches of lift. I bought it all at a hydraulic suppliers for a job I was doing harvesting big beech.
Havent really used it for a while now though.

Steve, I wondered about the rough time too? /forum/images/graemlins/pirate.gif
 
I almost never stick a saw into a tree without at least one wedge in my pocket and can't imagine ever doing differently.
 
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