Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
I remember that day. I thought this was the same reason as well. But if it is a harness issue I think we all need to know.
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Very sad accident today...
- Thread starter Mark Chisholm
- Start date
I remember that day. I thought this was the same reason as well. But if it is a harness issue I think we all need to know.
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Steve Connally
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Suffolk, Virginia
I have read some conversation about this incident. I am certainly not the one to give specific details but the consensus and information leads to a failed rope bridge on his harness and not being tied in twice on the ball. Can't say what the fiber was or the saddle but the issue was the bridge. Indications point to material potentially past its service life. Again I can't say for absolute certain but that's where its pointing. Just remember you cant just throw any rope on your bridge and expect performance.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Steve points out that we have a protocol for protecting against such incidents. It leads to me wonder why it isn’t being implemented? Why is it we strive for speed at the expense of safety? Is the work really that important that it demands we take such unnecessary risk?
No way!
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
And yet day in and day out I witness unsafe practices being used in the name of speed.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
UNSAFE, now that's kind of a loaded word that WE commonly use.
Its Black-White. Us-Them. Save VS UNSAFE!
Less safe, riskier...maybe better terms? Its a spectrum, isn't it.
People get their egos bruised more easily when you put them into a catagory called UNSAFE.
Never leaving the house isn't safe, either. Mostly what we do all day is UNSAFE by most first-worlders. Third worlders probably think were softies. Shoes, glasses, earplugs...
Speed...that's another one. Speed is different than productivity. I'd rather be productive than speedy.
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
When did putting a safety through the hook start? I could be wrong but I don't recall that practice at the Crane School 2 years ago, but do recall hearing and seeing it at this past one...and seeing it recommended sometime before that. I agree that is it is a good back up, and practice to do. My only real thought is that, something would more likely fail when your moving around the tree, setting the straps, putting sideloads etc on you rope/tip/crane vs when you are sitting directly under the hook and you can put your safety through it.
As to the rope bridge...that has been a concern of mine since switching from a Buckingham Versatile saddle to the Buckingham Ergovation. It just seems, in my mind, a weak point that is in a highly abrasive/rope bend/less visible wear points/etc. Until recently I always had a second bridge line run through my ring and connected to the side rigging plates (slightly longer to act as a backup). The only reason I stopped using the second bridge is cause I switched out the ring for a Rook pulley...do to the wear.
It just seems strange to me that with all the backups we have to do in the industry, that a single small diameter rope bridge is completely acceptable as we spin, rotate, swing, lean, jump, and pull our way through a tree.
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
I fully admit that I could be wrong...and probably am. I try to make sure that I do it these days, and tell/make my employee do it
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Yes, agreed that it isn’t black and white. Like this incident it’s a matter of a standard not practiced. We have standards to mitigate risk that if followed and incorporated become second nature and no limit to productivity.
Too many others are done in the name of productivity though speed is better applied because of the false notion that one equates to the other. We can be productive without speed, it’s a matter of thoughtfulness and working within the circumstance present.
My crane operator gave me a bunch of bumper stickers that read, “Nothing takes longer than an accident. Please work safely”
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
The rule has been in the Z since the last revision at least (I believe).
But let’s also consider one thing...
If a lanyard is through the hook conventionally and your rope fails, that’s gonna really hurt. I’ve been taught to not make my back up hurt worse than I would like to hang on my primary. And always look at it if my primary fails is my back up going to save me or hurt me worse.
All I’m saying is I put my primary on my bridge, and my lanyard there as well and it’s completely with in the Z regs. I do have a double bridge (two separately tied pieces), but there is nothing requiring it but my desire to take fewer chances. Maybe he was following the rules and it was just his time.
RIP brother
- Location
- South Carolina
very sad, reminder what one mistake can make, check and check again...go home safe.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Very upsetting.
God bless him and his family and friends who loved him.
God bless him and his family and friends who loved him.
Steve Connally
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Suffolk, Virginia
Hurt vs dead? I'll take hurt. Ever since the first time I rode the ball many years ago the second tie in has been the standard practice. You have waist positioning rings or attachments on most modern saddles. That is the designed spot for the lanyards in awkward work positioning where the side ds' could cause an issue. Same for crane use. If you are worried about painful hips dropping 12" if your primary TIP on the crane fails then change where your lanyard goes. I don't see that drop doing any damage to you. Maybe an ache of two but your lanyard is just slack not fully extended. As far as the crane school, the years I've been going it's always been taught. I often stop the climber on my crane if they aren't tied in twice and properly.
The failure point that Richard has seen as a pattern seems to be on the outboard side of the plates just before the stopper knot. He has a thread or 2 active on this rite now.
The failure point that Richard has seen as a pattern seems to be on the outboard side of the plates just before the stopper knot. He has a thread or 2 active on this rite now.
deevo
Been here a while
- Location
- Horseshoe Valley, Ontario, Canada
Yep, it’s always been taught like that at the crane safety climber school since it was best practise, and it’s in the TCIA Crane manual and operations specialist workbooks, has been for at least the last 5-6 years or whenever they came out with the first edition. Steve’s right we made sure everyone’s tied in twice and engrained it in each students heads while they were working with us at the course, which in turn they continue to do so, and go back and share with others. I do work with other companies around here and I make them do it as there aren’t really any co’s Around me that work with cranes much, so teaching others about Crane safety is important. I want everyone to go home safe and sound to their families at the end of each and every day. When I’m running my Crane or sub climbing for other co’s Using a bigger crane I always like to hear a climber saying I’m tied into the tree, taking my rope off the Crane, keeps everyone in the loop and everyone knows what’s going on, and acknowledge same.
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
The method of using a second attachment while being transported by the crane actual became an ANSI recommendation from the work of the crane chair at the time- owner of Mayer Tree, Dan Mayer. When he and I discussed it (I was on the committee) it wasn't to provide a backup for an accident like this. It was to make people slow down and focus when transitioning. That's where falling accidents seemed to happen during crane work.
Cameron Lyons of New Jersey. On halloween day. Left a wife and 4 kids. Oh that was sad sad.
