velocity lockstitch

Velocity is the only rope that does not have to be lock stitched according to samson. My velocity passed rope inspection and the minnesota climbing championship without beening lockstitched. Maybe I will get around to doing that one of these days.
 
I think I have the answer. I spoke with Howard Wright, the Industrial Application Engineer at Samson. Here are some excerpts from a couple of emails between us.

From Howard Wright
Samson still recommends lock stitching the eye for potential un loaded situations and/ or peace of mind.

That said, the factory spliced Velocity's that we sell do not have a lock stitch on the eye. The reason is a combination of the sticky "Sure Grip" coating on the cover, the small, tight eye (around 1/2"), and the fact that the throat of the splice ends up being really firm and tight.

Response from Nick to Howard
So the lock stitch in Velocity is not required, but recommended. If a person brings an unlocked velocity to a climbing comp, they should have no problem getting it passed in the gear inspection?

Response from Howard
That's a good way to put it for Velocity, "not required but recommended". I wouldn't think there should be any problems with gear inspections @ comps. After all, the splices right from the factory don't have a lockstitch. I think what's going to be more important in the gear inspection is the overall look of the splice...loose, sloppy crossovers and short buries are going to be pretty evident and those are the things that could potentially lead to a shift in the eye.

I think that about sums it up. If I were headed to a comp, I'd bring a copy of my email from Howard to clear up any doubt about the rope being lockstitched.

I will continue to lock stitch all splices that people buy from me. I encourage you to do the same.

love
nick
 
From Howard Wright
Samson still recommends lock stitching the eye for potential un loaded situations and/ or peace of mind.

That said, the factory spliced Velocity's that we sell do not have a lock stitch on the eye. The reason is a combination of the sticky "Sure Grip" coating on the cover, the small, tight eye (around 1/2"), and the fact that the throat of the splice ends up being really firm and tight.


I hate to say it but it sounds like we just got the real answer to the situation. Is it just me or does this sound like they recommend doing it, but it is just too difficult or time consuming to do??????? If Samson "still recommends lock stitching for potential un loaded situations" I am really shocked that they would then sell unstitched splices.

I personally (and I am sure Nick and others would agree) would have a very hard time sleeping at night if I knew that I sold potentially unsafe items for any reason, let alone because it was difficult to do.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Rich, do you have a dyno? Splice 1 up and give it the 'pull test'.

I personally don't think velocity needs to be stitched, if the splice is done properly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't say that I own a dyno yet, but hopefully that is going to change very soon. I am pretty certain that the Velocity splice will break well within the specs for the cord, my question would be why not take the extra step for some additional safety? Under an even pull the splice more than likely will hold up, but as we all know, arborists tend to put their gear in some pretty unlikely situations. With an uneven pull under small load the unstitched rope has the ability to come apart. A very simple and quick fix to this "potential" problem would be to stitch the splice. Samson even recommends it.

It is much like the stopper knot tied at the end of a split tail Blakes hitch. The stopper knot may be unnecessary, but considering it only took an additional 5 seconds to tie the stopper knot is there any real reason why you wouldn't tie it?
 
good points Rich H. It seems Samson is saying it's just too much a pain in their you know what to mess with it when it's not really considered absolutely necessary.

I spliced a FC out of velocity and doing the final stitching on the splice was a major pain, I moved it back six or more inches from the eye where it was a bit looser, but still difficult to get the needle through there. If anything else though, it's peace of mind when your way up in the tree.

jp
grin.gif
 
I gotta agree that Velocity is the most ornery rope I have encountered when it comes to stitching the spliced eye. I've bent more than one needle on it!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have to finish the bury on 1/2" double braid splices with a come-a-long. The throat is almost rock solid and I couldn't pass a sailmaker's needle through it even if I wanted to. No way is that splice going to pull out. On larger (5/8, 3/4) slings I always lockstitch; and of course hollow braid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hello,
Splices that are not that hard to get home are almost certainly stronger, and just as secure. If you are burying so much rope that a come-along is required, you are distorting the rope, and distortion = weakening (as
we've learned from numerous destruction tests). Plus, super-hard splices seem more vulnerable to abrasion. Plus, why work that hard for no reason?
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
 
Amen! Back when I posted that, and after reading Nick's response, I carefully examined my notes/procedures and found that I was not properly zeroing the rope after core extraction. Since then, all is well. Easier, stronger, faster, safer. Thank you for your continued visits to this forum.
 
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