Using a captive bar biner without the bar?

[climbstihl]

I have a DMM PerfectO w. a screw in captive bar, just wondering if anyone knows if it's allowed to use it without the bar installed? The manual doesn't say anything about it, only that you're not allowed to use their biners with a drive-in captive bar without it.

 

[Winchman]

The DMM website says the Perfecto is "Available in a standard or removable captive bar version." Based on that, I'd say it's fine to use it without the bar.

Locking Carabiners

DMM locking carabiners for climbing applications.

dmmclimbing.com

There's not much risk of damaging the carabiner by unscrewing the bar, but I can see how driving out the drive-in bar is a bad idea.

 

[climbstihl]

I saw that too, just not sure if they only say removable to show that you can install things yourself, and change them out.
Also, the manual has removal instructions for the drive-in bar, but you can only use that once, since you have to cut it...

I don't have any safety concerns using mine without the bar anyway, just wondering whether it's allowed. I'm using it on the Akimbo with the bar anyway.

 

[climbstihl]

Looking at the manual, I'm not sure why the screw-in feature would exist for a captive bar if removing compromises structural integrity. Knocking out the drive-in might leave a shard that cuts rope. Better err on the side of caution and contact DMM.

It would exist to make it easy for the user to change what you're using it for.

 

[*useless info*]

Some trade-offs in the balance of KISS.krab vs. captive strategies:
.
Usually if sling just in empty krab, is free ranging;
>>and if either leg 'kicks' into/by krab gate >> sling obliges,'disarms'/falls off
>>while sling in krab sling legs automatically adjust to even at different angles of pull against load.
>>and also rotate for more even wear
.
Captive bar /anything:
If either leg high steps in past gate
>>sling stays on, BUT can shear off of krab at high load when would not have before !!!
>>some kind of removable or slip behind captive bar, hairpin, leather strap etc.
Without any hard stop, can allow free rotation of wear, even tension legs at angle etc.
.

.
Any kind of knot or other STOP for this position:
Still allows a high step/kick thru gate of 1 leg to weakness w/o flagging or fall off!
>>then also doesn't allow free rotation, rotation to more even wear
>>and at angle of pull, both legs NOT pulled evenly, so are mainly relying on 1 leg of sling most days.