Tree Topping in Nashville

R

Rookieclimber

Location
Watertown, WI
I recently visited Nashville, Tenneesee on a trip with my lacrosse team. however, staying on the North West side of the city, i saw some quite disturbing trees. pretty much, there were countless trees that had been topped. i had seen old toppings with that watersprout/ hydra look to them but to me that was incredibly ugly. Even saw a fast food joint with at least 10 trees(not sure of species) that had been topped im guessing to gain this appearance of the water sprout.

I know pollarding is a common practice in some of europe but i did not know it gained that much appreciation in the Nashville area. One question... is this hack work or did i just miss a class describing how this practice can be "attractive"?
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It's hack work, period.

True pollard commences at a young age and usually with a species that can accomodate it and at a height that has some relevance to appearance ....

.... not totem poling old trees at 30' straight off the bat.

Ignorance is abundant, unfortunately as prominant within the industry as on the customers behalf ... I know of a board where some members say "as long as I get paid I'll do it!"

Here's a recent article I run to bust the buggers over here.
 

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what boards that then?

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I believe this is your post on that board "join the club log! we all do it, even the self richteous critics on these sites. its about making money at the end of the day, and if after telling the customer all the options they still insist on a hack job then someones gonna be getting money for it, may as wll be you!"
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Here's another members post "Its NOT NOT NOT!!!! unethical to top a tree!!!!
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And another "There are well over 50 tree firms advertising in just the yellow pages in my local area! and thats just the tree firms! no landscapers included.

I have a house morgage of over one hundred thousand pounds and two kids!

I cannot afford to take a moral high ground if I did I would be a fool.

I would love to be rich enough to turn down work."
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And another "I bet theres not a man on here that hasn't cut down a perfectly healthy tree for no other reason than the customer wanted it gone.. I see no difference in unnessisary removals and topping..."
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More:- "if i have a fine prune or thinning job i get my arborist to do it, if someones willing to pay me to top something theyve clearly been told will do the tree no good i climb up and bomb it down.i dont lose sleep over other peoples ideals ive topped thousands of trees some have benefited by not being a t/d."
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Here's the thread all of these have been extracted from, http://gypoclimber.com/treehouse/viewtopic.php?t=3911&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=165
 
That tread really highlights one of the major problem facing arboriculture. People who are in such a financial bind that they feel they have to abuse trees in order to make their next mortgage payment are giving our industry a black eye. Some of the opinions expressed are as sickening as they are ignorant.
 
sorry steve, i went there. ya, it wasnt in the greatest part of town either so i figured it was just cheap hack work.

and Treeco, i couldnt agree more, but in the words of my pops, "thats life kid... get used to it"
 
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and Treeco, i couldnt agree more, but in the words of my pops, "thats life kid... get used to it"

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I have to disagree with you there, we are professionals, and topping is a severly flawed practice, i would call it malpractice, and no professional should practice it without some severe circumstances and only then a very temporary step in the removal of the tree.


The argument that well its what they want, is bullocks its setting that tree up to be a known hazard, and should be unacceptable to anyone that considers themself a professional, with the education that we have collectivly here on these boards.

We can only advance our industry, by standing by our standards, and principles.
 
Hey Alves and others.

Today I just got back from a bid. We are looking at a 60' euc, 6' from the house so half it's canopy is over the roof, approx 2.5'DBH (nice stout one for a change).

I gave the price for removal, the customer wants it gone and it should have been gone 20 years ago, she said "I had another professional here today and he suggested I cut it down to 12' high, why?" That's what goes on here, all the time, my answers were ...

1/ Coz he doesn't have the skill to deal with the big barrel
2/ His chainsaw is too small for the big wood
3/ He's to lazy to get the big wood out
4/ He has no ethics and wants a quick buck
5/ He wants repeat business to return and trim the regrowth
6/ He's not a pro, there's more to that than owning a saw
7/ He doesn't know of the AS4373 rule here
8/ He wants you to have an imminant hazard to live with coz he may not like you
9/ He may be just plain ole stupid
10/ He wants to test out his liability ins down the track
11/ The big wood wont fit in his chipper
12/ He is not a member of any professional industry associations therefore fears no retribution for his malpractice.
13/ Because a topped hazardous tree is better then no tree in his mind
14/ Coz he thinks it's the right thing to do as his grandfather has taught him and he's done it for years
15/ He thinks shigo is a type of sushi
16/ He wants to save you money by doing half the job
17/ Because there is no govt reg or penalty for him doing so

I left her a flyer, links to my site and asked her not to support the hacks of the industry, most other industry would deal with malpractice but unfortunately we are exposed to all sorts of idiots in this one.
 

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Eric you've heard of www.plantamnesty.org I hope; great stuff there on this topic.

Yeah debt leads to desparation; neither a borrower nor a lender be if you can avoid it.

There are a couple of court cases in process now that may pin liability on poor past pruning; I'll try to fwd the verdicts if relevant.
 
Yep, that's a great site, I'm gonna link that into my websites pages on "Stop before you Lop" section.

I like the articles that you can read at the bottom.

Please let me know the outcome of those cases, very interesting.

Just today I got off the phone with a good ethical climber who was up from Sydney. He contract climbs for tree companies. He is thinking of going back to Sydney because of the volume of useless wankers in the business here. He is repeatedly asked or told to hack trees ... customers refuse to listen to logic as well and argue too "dont cut it there (at the collar) cut it out 3 feet so it bushes up!" He said he visited in 1988 and then it wasn't so bad, he came to Brisbane again in 1996 and it was bad ... but now it's crazy.

He wished me well in my crusade but felt it was a hopeless battle when the industry keeps reinforcing malpractice and customers remain arrogant as well as ignorant. If it is to change then it's up to us.

Here's my webpage with the link at the bottom, you like?

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/EpicormicTwo.html
 
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and Treeco, i couldnt agree more, but in the words of my pops, "thats life kid... get used to it"

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I hope he wasn't talking about diapers!
 
Give it a break already lads. This is getting old.

I can give an argument for cutting it to 12'.

1. If it is what the educated customer wants and it is their tree.....

2. If the customer values wildlife habitat (make signs and mark the as such so others know if it bothers ya)

3. 12' is a nice height so homeowners or lawn guy can easily cut off the new groth every year or 2.

Optimal, no. But I am not here to spend a customer's money. I just educate, lay out the options, and let them decide. I work in the service industry, not law enforcement or tree sheriff industry. /forum/images/graemlins/bud.gif

btw, I would have a hard time arguing for topping it to 30', etc. /forum/images/graemlins/avid.gif
 
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Give it a break already lads. This is getting old.

I can give an argument for cutting it to 12'.

1. If it is what the educated customer wants and it is their tree.....

2. If the customer values wildlife habitat (make signs and mark the as such so others know if it bothers ya)

3. 12' is a nice height so homeowners or lawn guy can easily cut off the new groth every year or 2.

Optimal, no. But I am not here to spend a customer's money. I just educate, lay out the options, and let them decide. I work in the service industry, not law enforcement or tree sheriff industry. /forum/images/graemlins/bud.gif

btw, I would have a hard time arguing for topping it to 30', etc. /forum/images/graemlins/avid.gif

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Hey mate, it's never gonna get old ... it's a permanent way of life get used to it ... as long as there is toppers there is anti toppers, do not tire as we wont.

Prepare your defences as we will attack, the 3 reasons you provided are all piss weak and again, if everyone said no it wouldn't be an option.

Habitat trees have to be in the right spot, they should also be of desirable structure ... a straight pole with a few branches wont be home to much.

Just coz the customer owns something doesn't entitle them to make it dangerous ... I own a car but it has to be roadworthy ... your buildings have to be of suitable standard and so on.

12' is a dangerous ht, means using a ladder or pole saw at near verticle to cut, branches can hit the roof easily plus lawn guys & homeowners dont carry the correct insurance for liability claims resulting from malpractice. If the homeowner cuts the branch off and gets hurt or damages the house there's nothing for him ... but he may be able to sue for incorect pruning resulting in a foresee-able hazard that was left by the tree company. Perhaps an iron clad contract could help but lawyers would still shoot holes thru it.

When you say you lay out the options are you saying that you include topping as an option? That's what the other tree bloke did ... he sowed the seed in the customers head!

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I work in the service industry, not law enforcement or tree sheriff industry.

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The latter two you mentioned are also "service industry" jobs, I wonder if they have a code of conduct?
 
Ekka I totally rewrote it, changing passive voice to active, using punchier words etc. What do you think?

Lopping a tree can destroy its natural form and stability. Lopping a tree creates an ongoing problem and expense because the weaker new growth often needs repeated pruning to keep from growing out of control. Restoring its structural integrity and beauty is extremely difficult, or impossible. Standard Pruning and care of your trees keeps them safer, and saves you money.

Tree lopping is a short-term attempt to reduce the height and spread of a tree. Lopped trees are easier prey for pests, more likely to break apart, more expensive to maintain and more likely to die. Standard Pruning or sometimes removal and replacement will leave you with less problems and a more valuable and sustainable landscape.

Lopping violates Australian Standard (AS4373) on Pruning of Amenity Trees. Members of the Queensland Arborists Association and other qualified professionals follow these Standards if they care about your trees and their profession.

Attached is part of a report; not unusual for the usa i don't think.
 

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People want confidence in the people that they hire as professionals. When you give reasons and spend time to educate they will almost always do what you recomend.
The best definition I've heard of what confidence is, is keeping up to date and knowing what is the cutting edge of your trade.
I think at one time what we know is hacking today used to be acceptable.
 
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... a straight pole with a few branches wont be home to much.


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You just described a bird house /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif
BirdhousePole.jpg


The reasons I stated were good and valid.

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The only thing piss weak.....

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Careful mate, pick friendlier words or you'll never get elected sheriff.

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Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg
 
Hahaha

Nice bird house.

But I can see I'm flogging a dead horse!!! Hahahaha

Piss weak, that's common around here, and it escapes the TB word violator thingo ... wasn't designed for aussie slang.

Hey ... come on, you didn't answer the BIG QUESTION, do you actually recommend or provide topping as an option? Like that other bloke did to the customer.

I doubt you did, we are talking domestic scenario of a healthy tree.

Hmmm, tree sheriff is a job is it? I'll have to look into that. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif I wonder if you can cut a commission deal on the fines ... whhoooohhoooo ... I'd be rich overnight in this town!

/forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif /forum/images/graemlins/bling.gif /forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 
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Ekka I totally rewrote it, changing passive voice to active, using punchier words etc. What do you think?


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Ha, I liked it so much that i just cut and pasted it ... have a look. /forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 
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