Tree Radar

[MTCInc]

Who has one? Is it making you money?

I am currently looking into these, wondering if it will be a good revenue stream and offer solid results to pass onto clients. My minimal experience with a resistograph is that they leave you guessing more at the end... Whats the deal with the tree radar?

 

[mrtree]

Are you talking about tree radar such as http://www.treeradar.com/ or sonic tomography such as Picus?

Neither offer "results", they provide information that must be interpreted.

Get ready to spend tens of thousands to purchase any system.

 

[MTCInc]

Yes, tree radar, as in the 25K tree radar, kinda like the title says. I guess results wasn't the right word to use, but you know what I mean.

 

[treehumper]

I'd be curious to hear how people are using this as well.

 

[Drewtree]

My tree radar cost me $5

In all seriousness though, this product fascinates me and I will be doing my homework on it so I can make a less smart-assed response in the future.

 

[treehumper]

Greg Mazur gave an interesting talk on this topic. Making a comparisons between the various tools, resitograph, tomography, radar and yes Drew, even your advanced technology!

 

[KTSmith]

MrTree has it right. I'd add the more research-y tools like CAT and NMR techniques and the Shigometer techniques I published on in the 1980-90s, When the machinery/electronics is working perfectly and is optimally positioned (no small thing), it will give you data from which may be inferred some aspects of wood density (including voids), or moisture content, or electrical resistance. All of those methods have their shortcomings...as does sounding with a mallet. Some of you may have greater practical experience than me with the instrumentation, but when I've collaborated with or stood over the shoulder of experts/proponents, accuracy and precision of the inferences ranged from "maybe OK" to "far out in left field".

I have to ask, even if the precision and accuracy was high, would it help make the on-ground-management decisions? Maybe in very high value specimen trees. Maybe not. Too me, variation in wood density or even electrical resistance (with which I have had the most experience) contains much less useful information than, say, the presence of cracks, sapwood rot, vigorous (or not) woundwood ribs for evaluating specimen trees.

When I used to give trainings to arborists on Shigometer technique, it was clear that practitioners wanted a box with just two lights: a green one for "good" and a red one for "bad". Instead, we gave folks instructions on how to first become familiar with patterns of mobile ions over many trees before trying to unravel the condition of individuals. Most folks just glazed over.

 

[guymayor]

The quest to suss out internal conditions like decay goes from fetish to mania. It's what's outside that counts, a lot more.

That said, I have done a lot of tomography with 3 different models and have found it very useful.

Attached from 7 years ago fwiw.

 

[mrtree]

Kevin I think that what your post implies is there is a lot of knowledge needed to use and understand advanced tree risk assessment equipment and techniques. One cannot expect an answer, especially if one has stood on saw dust as a method to elevate one's education as opposed to taking in the view from standing on the shoulders of others, propping yourself with thousands of pages of literature, and testing multiple pieces of equipment on the same subject as well as examining the trees before and after removal.

The OP asked if it is a good revenue stream. I think you need to ask that question to the couple of users of Tree Radar as well as users of resistographs, electrical impedance, tomographs, and static pull tests. These are a pretty small group as advanced tree risk assessment techniques are being replaced by monologist cutters who have taken TRAQ and are now qualified.

I know that some of these techniques are practiced by one to five people in North America which is likely some indication of the call for the service.

 

[guymayor]

call it advanced if you want to. the goal behind using the gear as well as the interpretation of the results can be bassackwards.

call it qualified if you want to...

 

[KTSmith]

Thanks Guy, I have no quibble with your 2009 article. I'm glad you put it out there!
Yes, valid interpretation and proper action takes is a good knowledge of the tree system, both the biological and the mechanical sides.
Yes indeed, the OP was asking about revenue streams, about which I know little. I do think that the market for a box with a red light and a green light might be pretty good, irrespective of what the flashes are based upon! Maybe a good retirement project...then again, I still have to live with myself.

 

[guymayor]

Haha red light green light; like self-driving cars, everyone wants to avoid thought. Diagnosis is required in the German standards but skipped over by A300 Risk and IPM standards, that instead rely on assumptions; one reason US approaches are all over the map, and TRAQ assessments and IPM typically lack a sufficient inspection and diagnosis. How people live with themselves after handing in these reports i do not know.

The 2009 piece was massively rewritten by an editor but the content is still pretty much what i put out there. i was asked to do it after several passed on the opportunity. lots of money involved so lots of politics but i mostly manage to steer clear of that.
revenue stream depends on one's market and abilities. i was very close to buying a tomo which i believe is superior technology to the radar gizmo and *might* have paid for itself over time. i would suggest renting to try these $20k toys out. Tomo does not work below 35 degrees, so southerners can affordably rent in winter.