Throwline diameter

NickfromWI

NickfromWI

Participating member
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Why would a person prefer a larger diameter in their throwline? For example, the Zing-it comes in 1.75mm and I think 2.25mm. I know the smaller is lighter and can be Zinged further. Isn't that extra weight just holding you back?

love
nick
 
Hey Nick,

The 1.75 mm stuff is more prone to snagging. it is easy to toss the 2.2 mm line 60-70 feet, and 90 or so with a Big Shot. And that is with a 12-14 oz pouch. I'm not a fan of lighter throwq bags. Real world throw line work, at least out west, deals with rough bark, iffy crotches, lots of evergreen duff to further limit line return. For that matter, many times, even a 14 oz pouch won't return...and that is frustrating, after hitting a great toss. With my sloppy skills, who knows how long before I achieve success.....
 
Like Rog said, it comes down to real world situations rather than which is 'better' on paper. Sure the smaller stuff can go farther. When I first got my BigShot, Zing-It and 10oz throwball, I overshot everything by 30'-40'.

My typical target is anywhere from 40'-80'. I can hit that easily with the heavy Zing-It and a 16oz bag, and my bag always returns. The small stuff is difficult to hold and throw by hand and also tends to get tension twists in it after a while. With heavy use the smaller line last me about 3 months before it breaks. With the larger stuff ($2 more) I get 6 months of trouble free tossing before it starts giving me problems.
 
My shoulders prefer it when I don't abuse them. One way to be gentle is using light ZI and a 10 oz Harrison Rocket. Rarely do I have a problem with the line not dropping back to the ground.

The only times that my line snaggles coming out of the Cube is if I'm not careful when I flake it in or if I don't use the whole line for a while. The folding of the cube will tend to make some weird folds in the loops after a while.

I wear Smurf gloves to pull my line into the tree so my pinkie finger isn't cut. Also, using the static line instead of climbing line for access is lighter.

My ZI lasts a long time. The bark on the trees in the Twin Cities must be smoother that in FL. I think that my oldest ZI is a couple of years and they have never broken.
 
Yep, my first ZI was the little stuff. It's never broken, except for one time when it got stuck 20' up in a honey locust. JPS thought he could just pull it out and it just snapped. Oh well, now I have a short section to carry in my pocket and use when needed.

The end of mine has a spliced eye and looks really worn. I keep telling myself that I should cut it off and resplice it, but I really wanna see how long it will last. I do about 80% of my tossing with an 8oz bag. It's momentum usually brings it to the ground, then I replace it with the 12oz if I need to bring it back up to isolate my TIP. A couple weeks ago, we used the ZI to pull down about 15 DED Elms. The was so much quicker that hauling up a heavier line...we really put that line to the test and it's still going strong!

I always put my smurf glove on the left hand for pulling.

The reason I asked this question is that I've started working for a guy here in Oshkosh (where the by the b'goshs). We were taking down a tall Silver Maple that he couldn't get the top and some of the laterals with the bucket. After I did all he couldn't reach, I went back to the ground, and instead of immediately dragging brush, I grabbed the PW-III, set it up and took over the roping, teaching his workers how to use it. He was happy as a clown at how efficient it was. A week or two later, he gave me his credit card number and said he wanted me to buy him some stuff....large carabiners, PW-III, throw line and weights, etc. I love the small ZI, but I opted for the larger stuff for him. My rational is that it is probably less tangle prone. I don't want him to get a birds nest the first few times, and just give up on it. He's hired climbers to climb 60' trees in it (via their spikes) to set lines in the tree just so he could pull notch the tree and pull it down!

I was concerned he might be dissappointed with the heavy ZI. After reading your posts, I'm comforted that I made a good decision.

Thanks guys. Oh, and Roger, I have your orange shirt sitting in a box on my couch. I will address it soon (that's what I said yesterday!)

love
nick
 
He's
hired climbers to climb 60' trees in it (via their spikes) to set lines in the tree just so he could
pull notch the tree and pull it down!

You don't mean that he has the climbers use the ZI as their climbing line do you? I know the stuff is strong but I would hesitate to use it for personal support.

Do you know the strengths?
 
I believe Lovey is saying that this guy is so old-school that he pays climbers to gaff up trees to set a pull line rather than using a throwline to set a rope.

I started out working with several guys like that. Had 6 years experience in treework before I ever saw someone climb a tree without spikes. Was another year or more before I saw a throwline. Very few progressive climbers around here. Nuthin' but swamps and orange groves until Walt built the Rat World about 34 years ago.

The first 'good' climber I ever worked for had me climb up many trees to set pull lines so we could flop the tree. He didn't use a throwline either.
 
Exactly...there are a lot of treeworkers around here who are super good with spikes, but have never used or seen a throwline. One particular guy hired me a couple weeks ago, said to bring my spikes, I asked what we were doing, he told me he just needed to set a line in a tree. I said I didn't need spikes for that. He laughed and said, "what are you gonna do, bear crawl up that tree? There ain't no branches for forty feet!"

I laughed, and said, I'll see you tomorrow. Boy was he quiet when I set that line in a few minutes (got it on the second toss) versus the half/hour - hour that he paid other guys to do the same job. But wait. They woulda got like 40 dollars for that. I only got ten bucks. Something doesn't seem right here. I need to get some spikes!

love
nick

ps- Tom, I have the end-to-end splices done on your ZI. Do you want an eye on both ends, in case one side breaks somewhere down the road...which I wouldn't expect. That throw line still looks practically new! ;)
 
Nick, this is ok, it is directly in line with the "broken window fallacy" The idea is ALWAYS to eliminate jobs.

http://www.progress.org/archive/fold136.htm

That is what we do as being progessively more efficent climbers. Eliminate jobs. Using new techiniques, we tackle 2-3X more work than the old school spikers, with better quality and safety too. That means less climbers, less ER docs, and less morticians. Not saying that others don't fill those voids, but the idea is always to eliminate jobs.

Almost forgot...less ladders too!!
 
...That means less climbers, less ER docs, and less morticians...

and also less money for me. I guess, theoretically, I could get around and fix more broken windows than the spiker could, but if there aren't that many broken windows....

love
nick
 
I always dust my lines with graphite powder.I use 2mm line and it pretty much always slips down using 8oz bags.Ok your lines don't look so nice and your hands look like you have just ground a pencil away on a belt sander but they don't get stuck so easy,Even in tight crotch's and rough bark...
 
Nick, maybe we should form a union to protect the jobs of the poor unemployed wagon wheel repair men ??

I have never tried any of the line lubes. Pecans seem to snag my lines the worst. The bark...just wedges in.....

F'n pecans...state tree and all, they belong far away from an urban setting.

I'll try the lube on my zing it and see if it helps....can't hurt?
 
Tom,
I occasionally work with a guy who uses WD-40 as a lubricant for his throw lines. It seems to work well for him, but I haven't justified using it myself just yet. I also know a professor of Biology that uses WD-40 as a pesticide on tree pests. Interesting stuff.
THE KID
 
I think WD-40 being a solvent base will destroy any polyethylene line very quickly.I use Grahphite powder it is so fine you just put say acouple of tablespoons in a plastic bag add your line and shake the fine dust impregnants the throw line the surplus dusts off very easily normally on something you don't want it to but there,,,The great thing is as the line slips over the branch some of the grahphite is rubbed off making a nice a nice smooth track for the line to slip through,and it doesn't destroy your line or the enviroment,,This is just what I use but there are lots of alternatives just avoid solvent based products or your lines going to snap right when you least want it to from solvent damage....
didj
 
Just something I forget to mention on safety !!!When using any type of Graphite based lubes remember graphite is highly conductive so keep lines that have graphite on them away from live conductors or you might go up in a puff of smoke
 
I tried the Ballistol and it didn't do much for me. Made my throwline limper and greasier (harder to handle) and it's got a funky smell. Didn't notice it being particularly easier to slip through trees. I quit using that line shortly after that because I had stressed the line enough to where I constantly had twist-induced birdsnests. Ballistol didn't help with that. Gonna leave my lines dry from now on.

You can use Ballistol around the home or shop kinda like WD-40 also, but it's over twice as expensive and smells funky. I tried it, won't waste my money on a second can.
 
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