Thinking of selling my bucket and chipper ....

I

irish93stang

Do you guys think it would be wise financially to buy a crane and sub myself out to other tree companies. I would provide my own climber in most circumstances unless I know the abilities of the other personnel. I would be selling my bucket and chipper to do this. Looking into a national 1500 or equivelant terex crane.
 
I'm not sure how many tree co.'s would want to hand the climbing position over to a sub-contractor. The climber is the boss, the position with all the risk and all the glory, the central element that the entire rest of the job revolves around. Many tree guys have a bit of an ego and fancy themselves as being pretty bad-azz. I don't see them trusting that or wanting that to go to a sub.

I've known tree companies large enough to have their own crane who used to rent them out to other tree companies but have since stopped doing that. They said that they were getting subbed by too many idiot tree co's who had no idea what they were doing, how to climb or how to work with a crane, and yet were still insisting that they were the boss and they were going to climb and "we're only paying you for the crane so shut up and climb back in the cab!" I realize this is the exact situation you're considering filling, and while I think it's a great idea, I'm not sure if it's a great business idea. How many companies would be smart enough to employ your services? Are you friendly enough with any of the local tree co's to inquire about whether they would consider using a climb/crane sub?

Just my $0.02. Well, $0.01 is more like it.
 
A cranes a good investment but I would say targeting tree work only would be a pretty limited market until your very established. Looks like we are going to target a crane for next year but I want to make sure we have work for it when we aren't using it. There is really no good smaller crane co. Right around here......
 
Jeff said:
I'm not sure how many tree co.'s would want to hand the climbing position over to a sub-contractor. The climber is the boss, the position with all the risk and all the glory, the central element that the entire rest of the job revolves around. Many tree guys have a bit of an ego and fancy themselves as being pretty bad-azz. I don't see them trusting that or wanting that to go to a sub.

I've known tree companies large enough to have their own crane who used to rent them out to other tree companies but have since stopped doing that. They said that they were getting subbed by too many idiot tree co's who had no idea what they were doing, how to climb or how to work with a crane, and yet were still insisting that they were the boss and they were going to climb and "we're only paying you for the crane so shut up and climb back in the cab!" I realize this is the exact situation you're considering filling, and while I think it's a great idea, I'm not sure if it's a great business idea. How many companies would be smart enough to employ your services? Are you friendly enough with any of the local tree co's to inquire about whether they would consider using a climb/crane sub?

Just my $0.02. Well, $0.01 is more like it.
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I understand where you're coming from with companies wanting their own guys doing the climbing and I can agree with that. Which is why I would have it written in the contract to shut their job down if their climber isn't what he/she claims to be. I know most crane companies around here won't rent crane without operator and climber, and the other crane companies wont do tree work. I feel there is a little niche around here to be successful. Jasonk will agree there aren't any real companies close to here that do crane work that are affordable and competent.
 
Tough call more and more tree services are getting their own cranes, knuckle booms Etc so don't limit yourself to just trees alone. And with providing a climber sometimes is good but what is he going to do when he's not needed or wanted? Most company's aren't going to sit their climber so yours does all the climbing.
 
It's surprising how close we are to each other geographically and yet how different our markets are. We have plenty of options for renting cranes around here for tree work and most crane co's are used to it and comfortable with it. Never even heard of a crane coming with a climber before you mentioned it.

I've done a lot of crane trees with National 1300, 1400 and 1800 series cranes. Great machines. Personally I'm partial to the 1800/NBT 40 with 142' of stick and the extra capacity that far out, but that 1500 should set you up very nicely. One of our local crane houses runs three 1400's, almost exclusively for tree work, just since they're a lot of capability in a small, cheap(er) package.
 
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It all depends on your market and what that market will take. We have one guy with a really nice crane that every tree company uses around here. He is so booked up you can't get him for three or four months right now. I booked up several days a month ahead of time knowing he gets so booked up in the summer.
Crane climbing is some of the easiest climbing you can do. Especially now with radio communications. You can train a novice climber how to be a decent crane climber in a few months. So if you subbed out to other companies you could purchase radio communications and talk with the climber the entire job. Tell him what you want him to do, were to sling, where to cut, etc. I don't think having your own climber would work in a situation like your wanting to do.
I would say however that as time goes on more and more tree companies are going to be owning cranes. Just like every tree company has a bucket truck, they will all have cranes. If you charge a responsible rate of 125 an hour for your crane service and I use you for 4 days a month I just paid out 4000 dollars to rent a crane for 4 days. That is almost two months crane payment and I only had the crane for 4 days. If I purchase a crane then all I need to do it run it two days a month and it makes the payment. You can get a good used crane with 95-105 feet of boom for around 100-120K.
So your going to have to look around and see how many smaller companies are around you that can not afford to purchase a crane and do not have the man power or experience with operating one. If you can fill that service in your area it might be a very wise business move.
If you have an established tree care company right now I would look into buying a crane with an operator. Then, you can unitize the crane in your own business and also sub it out to other companies when your not using it. It's just a scheduling thing. But just understand that you might show up to work a job for a competitor that you bid on but did not get. This can be a good thing for you because it allows you to be diversified and still get some of that work.
 
Like I said market around here is slim pickings for a crane to do tree work the bigger company here usually wants there 75 foot rear mount to go with the crane at a price of 4 grand a day... Buckets climbers and log trucks are what is the norm around here. My climber is very flexible if needed to be different places. But that would only be if the guys subbing me looked like a backyard hack tree co. But all good thoughts maybe get the crane and run it full time on my jobs and sub out when I have free time. lots of good points brought up from you guys lots of thinking to do
 
Efficiency drives growth for us and that means doing what we can to work faster and more effectively. Royce thinks the same as I do.....if I use a crane a day a week it pays for itself. By next spring we will have one.
 
Jasonk said:
Efficiency drives growth for us and that means doing what we can to work faster and more effectively. Royce thinks the same as I do.....if I use a crane a day a week it pays for itself. By next spring we will have one.
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Why don't we split the cost of one? I get it every monday, tuesday and wednesday and you can have it Thursday and friday. Then the next week we will just flip the schedule:)
 
Jasonk said:
Efficiency drives growth for us and that means doing what we can to work faster and more effectively. Royce thinks the same as I do.....if I use a crane a day a week it pays for itself. By next spring we will have one.
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Really cranes are not that much money. Buying one is the easy part. Running it, and keeping it busy is the harder part. However, if you current market is having a hard time of getting cranes then I would seriously look into one. Also, I am always thinking "What If".....What if we get a crazy ice storm, hurricane, or tropical storm. Having your own crane at your disposal will help out huge in a scenario like that!!
 
ROYCE said:
Why don't we split the cost of one? I get it every monday, tuesday and wednesday and you can have it Thursday and friday. Then the next week we will just flip the schedule:)
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Excellent concept Royce your a wealth of information and great ideas ,to bad I don't know or trust anybody near me to do It would be great if I could though. I ponder the thought of a crane but I run a three man crew which I do not want to expand. I'm the climber, bucket guy, ground guy, owner, estimator etc. I rent a crane a couple a times a month which would easily pay payment but who would run it or climb off it? If only we could clone are selves.
 
ROYCE said:
Why don't we split the cost of one? I get it every monday, tuesday and wednesday and you can have it Thursday and friday. Then the next week we will just flip the schedule:)
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I really don't hate the thought of it honestly......may be complex though with reg etc. need a dot number to to cross state lines. I looked at two crane jobs this week and figuring $225- hr for the local piece of trash I use here is driving me to pull the trigger on one sooner than later!
 
DTS said:
Excellent concept Royce your a wealth of information and great ideas ,to bad I don't know or trust anybody near me to do It would be great if I could though. I ponder the thought of a crane but I run a three man crew which I do not want to expand. I'm the climber, bucket guy, ground guy, owner, estimator etc. I rent a crane a couple a times a month which would easily pay payment but who would run it or climb off it? If only we could clone are selves.
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Remote control crane? That way you could do it all, from up in the tree.
 
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DTS said:
Excellent concept Royce your a wealth of information and great ideas ,to bad I don't know or trust anybody near me to do It would be great if I could though. I ponder the thought of a crane but I run a three man crew which I do not want to expand. I'm the climber, bucket guy, ground guy, owner, estimator etc. I rent a crane a couple a times a month which would easily pay payment but who would run it or climb off it? If only we could clone are selves.
Click to expand...
The above post was for you....just a thought....lol
 
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