Thinking about a mechanical acsender upgrade - but not without testing it

[MikoDel]

There are a few things that work really well for me, with a conventional split-tail setup.

one is, i am able to shorten the reach distance to my prusik by removing my tail. when the lion's share of the ascent is done, i can shorten it so now the friction hitch is extremely close to me. this is great for when i switch from an overhead TIP to just my lanyard, standing on gaffs and blocking a trunk down. you don't want a whole lot of xtra length/slack from your bridge to your prusik when Ur belly-up tudda stem, working close. i attached some pics, showing the X'd out tail piece which I remove when i no longer need it. then i attach the Oxan carabiner that holds my VT (or Schwab or Distel, whatever) directly to my CMI dual pulley.

this is also very helpful when i'm tied in two places, reaching, reaching... and the angle of my lines is now steeply away from me. when balance is critical, reaching the prusik easily to release or tighten is a beautiful thing. i have limited reach - this stuff is important to me.

another thing i like about a 'soft' ascent system made up of prusik cord is, sometimes there's an obstacle in my way that re-directs my climbing line, like a limb crossing my ascent path. when i have to ascend past an obstacle, sometimes i need to swing away from the limb to free the system, capture a little progress quickly, and then my prusik collides again with the limb. swing away again, capture some progress, then back against the limb. prusik cord connected to a hitch climber pulley can take a moderate amount of pressure and abuse when loaded tangentially. If i load the thing sideways against a limb that's in my way, there's nothing too delicate there that i can f__k up.

when i look at the mechanics of an ascender like a ZigZag, i wonder if that thing would become damaged when i'm trying to get past a big branch and that thing's all smished against it, loaded in a kind of oblique way that it 'doesn't like'. i'm sure i'm overthinking it. i don't torture the gear. i'm pretty careful when it comes to stress forces.

Hmmmmm...

There's a great store in Westchester PA, American Arborist, where they have a welded frame that allows you to clip in and hang from saddles, test stuff...

Before I go for like $400+ bux for a ZigZag and the descender part, it's a MUST that I check out my options with that thing. Cause climbing for 20 years w/the system I know, I have a few tricks that work for me. If I go to a mech ascender I need 2 B able to kno I have 'new tricks' so i'm comfortable working around sticky situations, and where my limited reach can be addressed. (tyrannosaurus in a tree)

 

[Jonny]

If you ever are near Buffalo or Niagara Falls, NY, you’re welcome to try a ZigZag and/ or ZigZag Plus with Wrench, or hitch w Wrench, 2 different Akimbos ( Rock Exotica and GoFundMe) OG RopeRunner, and HitchHiker 2. I think that’s everything, plus a pile of foot, knee, chest, and hand ascenders. Got a decent size silver maple to play in.

 

[colb]

Rec groups often are good for gear testing. You probably have one closeby.

 

[colb]

Climbing competitions are also good, but lack some of the great devices that are not approved for the comps...

 

[Chris Schultz]

I can’t think of any mechanicals that would like that side load/contact with limbs etc…. especially the zig zag. Those chains that make up the friction of the zig zag device are fragile in that regard. Maybe look into the unicender by rock exotica. Seems like the most robust mechanical out there, and may fit your style the best. It is also mid line attacheable, which is a huge victory over the zig zag IMO….. Also, an adjustable bridge could help with where your setup is positioned out front….good luck with your quest. PS. If you buy a device and dont love it, the classifieds on here are a great source for buyers and sellers alike.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

My rule of thumb with either soft or mechanical adjusters is that they don’t get smooshed against anything. They don’t get touched. Over the years I’ve known too many bad outcomes

 

[Vicente]

I'm happy with my rrp I will often use my camp giant descenders when I'm gaffing as it's a little shorter and just a really nice secure easy to operate device.

 

[Njdelaney]

I like my Wrench and original RR, but the device that can handle the smooshing and close quarters stuff best in my experience is the HH. I currently have the latest version the HHXF but the HH2 or HHX would all be good choices for you based on your description. The HH variations also create a very short system so the amount of swing away, ascend, capture progress you need to do is reduced.

 

[Rooted.Tree.Solutions]

It seems like you’re pretty happy with your current set up. Why are you looking to change it?

 

[MikoDel]

I'd like to thank you all, weighing in. Some of the things I'm curious about, I now have at least prelim answers to, e.g. how the hardware might not like non-approved loading scenarios.

What Tom said, i have to reply: Anyone getting into tree climbing on rope, even for recreational purposes w/little pressure to perform, and even @ a beginner's level, you need to practice (read: BE ABLE TO) supporting your weight with only one hand, as if your friction hitch has totally failed. And also, BE ABLE to ascend (however more awkwardly LOL) w/only one hand Because as you advance into more and more adventurous climbs, ultimately you will come upon a scenario where a stiff branch above you releases your hitch when you don't expect it, or your properly tied hitch all a sudden REFUSES TO GRAB. There are many reasons why the latter can happen, mostly during experiments w/new hitches and tail materials. Ascent with only one hand becomes necessary when there is an obstacle in your way, and you have to use one arm to keep your line and setup away from a redirecting limb, while pulling yourself up and past it w/your other hand.

But for sure, with the exception of a child or a newbie on a guided climb, where all the materials are carefully picked out, tied in by the mod, and there's a moderator there every step of the way, there will come a time when the unexpected will occur. When (not if) that happens, you need to be strong enough to hold yourself on rope, and/or climb, with only one hand, while you use your other hand to 'fix' the problem. So I agree, bad outcomes happen. So be strong, and be ready. And I also agree it's certainly preferable to keep your ascent setup away from anything that could affect its performance. In my experience, that's not always possible. but in theory i wouldn't argue that.

as an aside to this, i must add that a hitch-climber pulley, connected to your working end that "automatically" ascends as you pull yourself up, w/out having to throw the knot, becomes absolutely indispensible if you are forced to climb w/only one hand.

as to why would i change, well, i haven't yet! but i read stuff like the (attached) comments about the zigzag, and those opinions do create an allure.

i've included pics of some of the devices you all have mentioned, as a courtesy (to myself LOL) for those who are interested

i can see how the stout design of the hitch hiker might be the least prone to be phased by resting against a redirecting limb. another thing i've read about some of these devices (this was a long time ago) is that some of the internal components wear out, and have to be replaced. and when i saw the cost of the replacement friction item (i think it was $100 replacement part on a $300 ascender) i was like 'no thanks'. geez, I could climb on a HRC tail for 10 years!! but that's cause i mostly take almost all the friction and heat w/my hands, and slack the tails to keep 'em cool.

and NO, i don't keep stuff in rotation for that long - i'm just saying i COULD

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

I'd like to thank you all, weighing in. Some of the things I'm curious about, I now have at least prelim answers to, e.g. how the hardware might not like non-approved loading scenarios.

What Tom said, i have to reply: Anyone getting into tree climbing on rope, even for recreational purposes w/little pressure to perform, and even @ a beginner's level, you need to practice (read: BE ABLE TO) supporting your weight with only one hand, as if your friction hitch has totally failed. And also, BE ABLE to ascend (however more awkwardly LOL) w/only one hand Because as you advance into more and more adventurous climbs, ultimately you will come upon a scenario where a stiff branch above you releases your hitch when you don't expect it, or your properly tied hitch all a sudden REFUSES TO GRAB. There are many reasons why the latter can happen, mostly during experiments w/new hitches and tail materials. Ascent with only one hand becomes necessary when there is an obstacle in your way, and you have to use one arm to keep your line and setup away from a redirecting limb, while pulling yourself up and past it w/your other hand.

But for sure, with the exception of a child or a newbie on a guided climb, where all the materials are carefully picked out, tied in by the mod, and there's a moderator there every step of the way, there will come a time when the unexpected will occur. When (not if) that happens, you need to be strong enough to hold yourself on rope, and/or climb, with only one hand, while you use your other hand to 'fix' the problem. So I agree, bad outcomes happen. So be strong, and be ready. And I also agree it's certainly preferable to keep your ascent setup away from anything that could affect its performance. In my experience, that's not always possible. but in theory i wouldn't argue that.

as an aside to this, i must add that a hitch-climber pulley, connected to your working end that "automatically" ascends as you pull yourself up, w/out having to throw the knot, becomes absolutely indispensible if you are forced to climb w/only one hand.

as to why would i change, well, i haven't yet! but i read stuff like the (attached) comments about the zigzag, and those opinions do create an allure.

i've included pics of some of the devices you all have mentioned, as a courtesy (to myself LOL) for those who are interested

i can see how the stout design of the hitch hiker might be the least prone to be phased by resting against a redirecting limb. another thing i've read about some of these devices (this was a long time ago) is that some of the internal components wear out, and have to be replaced. and when i saw the cost of the replacement friction item (i think it was $100 replacement part on a $300 ascender) i was like 'no thanks'. geez, I could climb on a HRC tail for 10 years!! but that's cause i mostly take almost all the friction and heat w/my hands, and slack the tails to keep 'em cool.

and NO, i don't keep stuff in rotation for that long - i'm just saying i COULD

Thr zigzag sounds the closest to what you're familiar with and maybe the easiest transition. It is insanely smooth with a friction saver (something simple works fine, like a regular ring and ring set up) and cam self tend with one hand like you mentioned you like about your current device.
If you don't use srt / srs climbing systems often, I would pass on the akimbo and rope runner. Those are terrible for moving rope systems as they don't set up to easily self advance.
I've come back around to hitch cords and pulleys myself. With the rope you're climbing on, a 10mm prussic with like a michoacan or X.T. or knut hitch would probably be really nice. Replacing burned or dirty prussic is easy enough, where as the zigzag links get worn with a lot of use and can be a bit of effort to get real clean if used on a sappy tree

 

[Dan Cobb]

Personally, I don't want to rely on brute strength to save me from disaster. When climbing, my system can handle any single point failure without significant consequence and it allows me to easily pass hard contact points and redirects.

I agree it's helpful to practice and know your capabilities for muscling your way through a situation, but I prefer a system that makes that unnecessary.

 

[Brocky]

See picture on left.

 

[evo]

I haven’t tried a zigzag, nor a rope runner.
For pure mechanicals I have an akimbo and a uni.
Hybrid hh2 and a wrench
I just keep coming back to the wrench. I’m pretty lanky and hate 11mm ropes, can’t get a mechanical to work consistently well for me. Part of it too is living and working in conifer land. I have enough shit to do, and having designated ropes or washing them after every climb is kinda not what I’m about.

 

[JeffGu]

I must have at least 4 new or barely used ZigZags laying around here that I should list on Treebay. I'm only going to keep two ZZ setups, and I've already set those two aside. I still think it's the best DdRT device. Unless you're up over 250 lbs. or so...

 

[MikoDel]

Thr zigzag sounds the closest to what you're familiar with and maybe the easiest transition. It is insanely smooth with a friction saver (something simple works fine, like a regular ring and ring set up) and cam self tend with one hand like you mentioned you like about your current device.
If you don't use srt / srs climbing systems often, I would pass on the akimbo and rope runner. Those are terrible for moving rope systems as they don't set up to easily self advance.
I've come back around to hitch cords and pulleys myself. With the rope you're climbing on, a 10mm prussic with like a michoacan or X.T. or knut hitch would probably be really nice. Replacing burned or dirty prussic is easy enough, where as the zigzag links get worn with a lot of use and can be a bit of effort to get real clean if used on a sappy tree

that very helpful, thank U. i read the other replies as well, and i'm lucky that almost all the trees i prune and/or fell are NOT conifers. i don't have deal w/sap too much. and i don't weigh but 160. Remember the movie Rudy? "Yer five feet NOTHIN'!! U weigh a hundred and NOTHIN'!!" Ha

 

[MikoDel]

See picture on left.

can U elaborate on that ring within a hitch thing U got going on there?

 

[Njdelaney]

It's a variation of his Sticht Hitch, which you can find tons of info on in this thread:

Sticht Hitch

This hitch has come up in a couple other threads, Hitch Hiker Length, and Lanyard Adjuster. Thanks to those who are trying this hitch and giving feedback on their experiences. @JontreeHI, there might be binding due to the legs being too short to allow the ring to be positioned farther down from...

www.treebuzz.com

 

[SeanRuel]

I get that you are comfy with your current method of climbing, but I think you would benefit more from learning SRT than buying a mechanical.

Hitchhiker is what I used to transition over, it works equally well SRT and conventional doubled rope. Climb as you do now, but you'll find tons of use for the SRT option as you climb. Just my $.02

 

[MikoDel]

I get that you are comfy with your current method of climbing, but I think you would benefit more from learning SRT than buying a mechanical.

Hitchhiker is what I used to transition over, it works equally well SRT and conventional doubled rope. Climb as you do now, but you'll find tons of use for the SRT option as you climb. Just my $.02

Yeah U 100% right. Funny this one customer, i just finished the 3rd job on his property, and every one was started going up SRT on my Petzl Texas. The one limb was so horizontal that I was able to stay clipped intudda Texas for 75% of its removal, just adjusting the cam for more or less while i cut it back, while also clipped into my pos lanyard.

I say funny cause it's true, I almost always work DRT.

I see the SRT of late has gotten into the "chest thing", and then there's the foot attachment... seems like a bit more to learn. I already do have that foot thing. And ya know, I'm just getting over a 'chest thing'; been coughing and spitting stuff up since Oct. 27th