The Z133 draft is now on line

Tom Dunlap

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
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The latest draft of the Z133 is now online for public review and comment. You can download a pdf at www.isa-arbor.com (click through the Welcome screen to get the the main page, and look under the "announcements' column).

There is also a Word file that people can download and use to submit comments.

Make comments and suggestions during the public review period, using the official form.

Finally, in reviewing the ANSI Essential Requirements, it was discovered that if the draft is available online, the public comment period does not have to be 60 days -- it can be 45 days. Therefore, the 45-day period will end September 5. This is good because it will give the ISA more time between the end of the review period and our October committee meeting.
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Now is your chance to review the potentials rules of the Game of Arborculture in the US. I'd like to ask a favor of anyone who is going to send in a note about the review. Would you copy your comments into this thread? This will bring points to other's attention. Sometimes there are issues that come to your attention and not someone else.
 
Can someone clarify what 8.1.6 means? What are "operations not subject to regulations that supersede Z133.1?"

When I read 8.1.6, it says to me, it must be a 1/2" rope, unless it doesn't half to be 1/2", then it can be 11mm (7/16ths).

I hoped they'd clarify 8.1.7 and just come out and say that closed ended split tails (distel, etc) must be made of cordage have a breaking strength of 2,700lbs. This seems to often be a point of confusion among us.

love
nick
 
"operations not subject to regulations that supersede Z133.1?"


If I understand that statement it means that there may be a regulation that has a higher power than the Z. If a person were working in an area where only OSAH regs applied, there might be some clause that would out-rank the Z.

I'll see if I can get a clarification.
 
Tom,

Can you locate a PDF version of the current rules? If so, I can easily generate a list of differences between them and will post it here.

Glen
 
So if another governing body says the rope MUST be 1/2", then the rope MUST be 1/2", but if no one else cares, than 11mm is acceptable?

If this is what it means, then it makes sense, but is un-necessary. It seems that there could be a seperate similar clause for every line in the book. ANSI is it's own set of guidelines/suggestions. If it is saying 11mm is OK, then it should just come right out and say it.

love
nick
 
Nick,

You should have been at the April Z meeting. This is where the two factions divided. One side just wanted to basically say what you're saying, the others, leave it alone. Seems really awkward.

Let's take some time to discuss this here before you send in suggestions.
 
Okay, Tom.

It needn't be PDF particularly, either, as it will be made into plain text for the comparison anyway. I'd like to use the command-line tool "diff" to generate a list of differences between the old and new like shown below.

It's a comparison between an old and the new version of a shell script I'd made. Each file name/info is prefixed with either "---" or "+++" and the differing lines are indicated, in context, starting with either a " " (space) if the line is common between them, a "-" for a differing line as present in the "---" file, or a "+" if in the "+++" file. Hope that makes sense. It took about as much time to invoke and run as it took me to type and enter

"diff -us wmap. wmap[enter]"

Certainly much less than this description!
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>--- wmap. 2003-07-18 23:44:09.000000000 -0500
+++ wmap 2005-04-17 19:02:00.000000000 -0500
@@ -11,7 +11,8 @@
;;

i*|I*)
- echo need to get Indiana URL
+# echo need to get Indiana URL
+display 'http://image.weather.com/web/radar/us_ind_closeradar_large_usen.jpg' &amp;
;;

n*|N*)</pre><hr />
I would use the copy only for that purpose and then discard it.

Glen
 
I got two emails back from ISA this morning. Both agree with my understanding of this phrasing.

It would be nice to either have those entities written out or get rid of the verbiage. The purpose of the reviews is to make a better document. Leaving this confusion in makes a lesser document.
 
So are we required under this regultion to use 1/2" min. diameter lines, or are we able to use 7/16" diameter lines under this document?
This is what is so confusing to us non-lawyer types.

I Don't understand why diameter of line is even in here.
So ling as the tensile streignth/strech, abraision/uv resistance are appropriate, and I have the means to secure myself to the line I should be able to use 3/16" line.
 
I like this one

8.1.13 Rope ends shall be finished in a manner to prevent raveling.
Any one ever see a rove ravel itself back into a non fuzzy form? /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
You're thinking unravel right. Well , I just checked Webster's and he say's:
ravel- to separate into its parts, esp. threads; fray
 
ravel = unravel

Tom, I would have loved to be at the meeting. I didn't think it was open to the public.

Oh crap, I have to send you $18! I have the envelope in my room. I'll get that out tonight. Shame on me!

Sarumono- I like the idea of having a limit on line size. If a handsaw nicks a 11mm or half-inch line, that nick might cut 10% of the way through the rope. That same nick in a 3/16th's rope would be going through 50% of the way through the rope. YIKES!

love
nick
 
Nick has a valid point, and not for the first time :). The other side of the coin is played out in the reasearch or rec climbing world, where packing 400 or 600 feet of rope over rough country can make smaller diameter lines extremely attractive. And don't beleive for a moment that there are no working climbers whose jobs are not covered by the Z via OSHA doing that kind of work. Guide services are more and more evident out there and plenty of contract and in-house natural resource management agency employees are subject to these rules.
 
I was confused about ravel/unravel along with furl/unfurl. The dictionary set me straight.

I have a coil of Tech Cord from NER. It's 5mm and has a breaking strength of 5,000 pounds. Could be climbing line but I shudder to think how much strength would be lost from a nick, no not you :)

This section is something that needs to be cleaned up. It is WAY too confusing. It sounds like there are too many opt-outs and sub-clauses. No one really understands what it means in it's present form.
 
Well I never thought that ravel is same as unravel./forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Thanks for clearing that up.

As for 8.1.6 yes tom there is a lot of confusion.
a simple statement like (...rope shall be 7/16" diameter.) would graetly clear this up.
If work is being superseeded by another agency, their regulations will be required to define that.
While nick does have a great point, I still like my ropes light. After all, the standerd already requires that we keep all sharp pointy things away from our ropes, so that really should not be an issue. Well i guess it's ok to reiterate uppon the recapitulated fact. Afterall it does rewrite 1/2 the federal motor carriers standard. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I wasent sure how to quote stumper here so I just cut and pasted.

"I wish the ANSI comitteee would take the lead and write 22kn in as acceptable. As you and I both know-practically alll 22kn rated equipment would actually pass a 5000lb ratings test-and the 5000lb was just a nice round number anyway-22kn is double a "maximum survivable" fall rating and entirely adequate for breaking the tree at our TIP in many cases. I respect the idea of establishing safe standards but I despise stupidity and arbitrary numbers in the rulemaking process. "

Now is a great time to make great gear available.
 
I concur with the thumbs up to 22kN gear.

Tom, don't climb on Tech Cord. There's NO stretch! ANSI says it has to have stretch

I am comfortable ascending a 3/8ths line, but when I get to where I'm going, I have to switch to a heavier line, at least 11mm, for working, just cause that's what I'm used to. Ummmm, anyway.

I just looked up ravel and unravel. They both said "to come undone" and "disentangle."

The Z shouldn't have to say, "if someone else more important says rules that are stricter than our rules, then you have to follow their rules, not our rules." That's silly.

love
nick
 
Nick,

I realize that. It's like flexible wire cable :) I was being a bit exteme :)

I made a daisy chain using butterfly knots. the other use is for a lanyard on my Unicender. The lanyard is about seven inches long. It makes for a compact setup.
 
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