The problem with tip tying

Daniel said:
yes... two lowering lines and one pull line, all tied off to a biner and sling. As soon as the piece started moving, the pull line and one of the lowering lines went slack. So the numer of lines had nothing to do with the movement. The variable that caused the dangerous movement was the placement of the sling, as in how the tie off affects the balance of the piece. That balance caused the piece to helicopter around the trunk and had him jumping out of the way for his life, only to end on the other side of the trunk, which was right where the piece bounced...

SO why did he use the tip tie? Did he need the clearance? he migh have.. I saw the entire video. The second lowering line was used as a drift line. If he had moved that sling back to just inside the balance point, the tip would hae gone down and away, preventing the helicoptering, while losing very little clearance.
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It was hard to see. Did the drift line come tight again, preventing it from being run by the main line?
 
southsoundtree said:
Seemed like a very low tip-tie.
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Agree that the tip tie could have been set higher, but if you look at the 0:14 mark you will see that the piece was in fact butt heavy. A proper slice cut and a proper pretensioned line held tight until the butt slides of the cut.. The piece stays upright with minimal movement and low and behold there is no helicopter death spiral.
 
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islandarb said:
His oblivion to what he just did, leads me to believe that he did not learn the error he made. That is plain ole horrible setup, poor roping too.
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That's the main take away here... that set up was a problem from the start.

I'd rather not have to worry about how the cut performs when it comes to my safety if I can avoid the problem in the first place with a good rigging set up.
 
Daniel said:
That's the main take away here... that set up was a problem from the start.

I'd rather not have to worry about how the cut performs when it comes to my safety if I can avoid the problem in the first place with a good rigging set up.
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Keep it simple in most cases. That was an easy tree by the looks of it. 3 ropes on that piddle stick is asking way too much. Position of ropes was so off. Climber had no idea what was happening. Hopefully he improves his rigging scenarios otherwise it will bite him one day.
 
Mick Dempsey said:
Peeling can be very species specific of course.
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Even with big tops, if there's clear grain below the cut, the piece will peel rather than BC... I can't say that true 100 percent of the time because I haven't got enough experience to be certain, but I'm pretty sure that's universal, and not related to species, or size, or weight, lean etc...

The crucial thing is cutting from the bucket. You can do things from the bucket that you could never try if you're on rope.
 
Daniel said:
Here's another tip tied fiasco:

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He hits the wires a total of 3 times I believe? Including one around 11:00 where he cranks a lead on the opposite side of the tree all the way towards the line, with a misread COG and a butt that moves quite a bit. It rests on the lines and he says ‘no big deal, we’ll just put a tag line on the butt and pull it out.’ Um ok

Also just ironic because that lead could have easily been bombed, or at least negative rigged, so chill.
 
Stumpsprouts said:
He hits the wires a total of 3 times I believe? Including one around 11:00 where he cranks a lead on the opposite side of the tree all the way towards the line, with a misread COG and a butt that moves quite a bit. It rests on the lines and he says ‘no big deal, we’ll just put a tag line on the butt and pull it out.’ Um ok

Also just ironic because that lead could have easily been bombed, or at least negative rigged, so chill.
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these are some of his favorite sayings..."This tree is givin me a little trouble"... "whoopsie".. "no harm, no foul".."that did not go to plan"...

All he had to do was clear the maple.. He didn't need the GRCS at all on that cut... there was plenty of clearance. he could have just let it swing left with a side notch or rip cut, but he cranked that thing NEEDLESSLY right into the wires. On the way you hear all the limbs popping and breaking out right over his head, and right over the groundie who was cranking the GRCS... he should have tied it higher or cut it lower and used gravity to swing it just a few feet left to clear the maple, and then let it drop.

And as you mention, it looks like he could have just roped the top out from where he tied it off.

That's also a good lesson on how deceptive those long arching tips can be...GIven how low he cut it and where the piece was tied off, you would have thought it would be but heavy, but those tips are heavy.

and with only one groundman, how was he planning on getting that big of a piece down into that little yard? I made a couple comments on his earlier videos about that unecessary and inefficient use of the GRCS and he blocked me from leaving comments... can you let him know how close he came to DYING!!!
 
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