The problem with tip tying

[RopeShield]

i self rig almost everything, wood on the ground 1st is safest in my experience
tip ties, so in rigging with a tip tie the idea is to hit the hole with the butt and let it run catching the top weight and not the butt weight.
always seems to be less hang ups and much easier for ground crew to push or pull or cut the tips into the lay.
plus I really enjoy the tips flying past me or slapping me

 

[Gorman]

I tip tie mostly on long horizontal limbs that have no clearance for conventional rigging.
With this method I incorporate a "butt tie" as well. This provides a very controlled lowering method. As a bonus, the butt rope can be used as a tag line after the weight is transferred to the main lowering line.

Yea, if you’re gonna tie tie you gotta have a butt tie.

 

[Gorman]

I tip tie mostly on long horizontal limbs that have no clearance for conventional rigging.
With this method I incorporate a "butt tie" as well. This provides a very controlled lowering method. As a bonus, the butt rope can be used as a tag line after the weight is transferred to the main lowering line.

Yea, if you’re gonna tip tie you gotta have a butt tie.

 

[islandarb]

Honestly tip tying is just another tool in the bag. Purely situational. Know when to use and you are mint. Just like anything else in arboriculture misuse can turn fatal in the blink of the eye. Stay safe in 2019 folk.

 

[southsoundtree]

I'd like to go play in some trees with Human. He generally has a positive attitude, I've seen him own a few mistakes, and he has got balls.
I can work with that.
As long as he is the sort of person who absorbs the words that I say.

Dude didn't make good decisions before a hard free fall to the ground. That didn't help his cognitive ability.

You think he might listen to you? He didn't listen to that wrecking ball of a log that he broadcast.

That guy had terrible judgment.

I will grant that I would make a bunch of mistakes if I continued filming myself, thinking of witticisms, considering my bicep-shots, etc, while doing tree work.


It's like Bob Vila.

 

[islandarb]

Yea, if you’re gonna tip tie you gotta have a butt tie.

I disagree. All situational. No two trees or variables of said tree are the same. Rig pt and position of said rigged piece and how much room, play a huge role.

Dude didn't make good decisions before a hard free fall to the ground. That didn't help his cognitive ability.

You think he might listen to you? He didn't listen to that wrecking ball of a log that he broadcast.

That guy had terrible judgment.

I will grant that I would make a bunch of mistakes if I continued filming myself, thinking of witticisms, considering my bicep-shots, etc, while doing tree work.


It's like Bob Vila.

Proper talk Sean. Human's concept of 3D spatial awareness is sub par at best. He needs to wise up quick or go work for a sound crew who values safety 1st with a balance at production close second.

 

[rico]

I give him an A for effort, but for whatever reason Human doesn't appear to be wired to be a climber. I sure hope he comes to grips with that before he fucking kills himself or others. We all can't be "the man" at work, and there ain't no shame in knowing ones limitation.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I don't understand why we can't all be "the man". Most people definitely do seem to struggle with it. I forget that everyone can't "see" everything that I can... It leads to situations where education could be happening, but I don't know what they don't know (it is hard to erase the perspective that experience gives) and they don't know to ask.
I'd still go make sawdust. Most of you are pricks and I'd play in a tree with most of you as well.

 

[RopeShield]

 

[islandarb]

I don't understand why we can't all be "the man". Most people definitely do seem to struggle with it. I forget that everyone can't "see" everything that I can... It leads to situations where education could be happening, but I don't know what they don't know (it is hard to erase the perspective that experience gives) and they don't know to ask.
I'd still go make sawdust. Most of you are pricks and I'd play in a tree with most of you as well.

Ha ha

 

[NateCharlton]

Of course his technique was a lot better than this guys.....PS Before anyone watches, I would never post this except the guy by the grace of God was able to return and finish the job the next day.

Maybe one of the few times that not being tied in saved someone’s life.

 

[Daniel]

This is why not!!!!

 

[Stumpsprouts]

This is why not!!!!

not really tip tied, more like balance tied? Video doesn’t show anchor points but sure looked overly complicated rather than just negative rigging a chunk down…

 

[Daniel]

down an away!!!

 

[southsoundtree]

It looked to me that he has two rigging ropes and a pull rope.

Possibly asking two people to simultaneously react to the log getting pulled into motion.

 

[Daniel]

It looked to me that he has two rigging ropes and a pull rope.

Possibly asking two people to simultaneously react to the log getting pulled into motion.

yes... two lowering lines and one pull line, all tied off to a biner and sling. As soon as the piece started moving, the pull line and one of the lowering lines went slack. So the numer of lines had nothing to do with the movement. The variable that caused the dangerous movement was the placement of the sling, as in how the tie off affects the balance of the piece. That balance caused the piece to helicopter around the trunk and had him jumping out of the way for his life, only to end on the other side of the trunk, which was right where the piece bounced...

SO why did he use the tip tie? Did he need the clearance? he migh have.. I saw the entire video. The second lowering line was used as a drift line. If he had moved that sling back to just inside the balance point, the tip would hae gone down and away, preventing the helicoptering, while losing very little clearance.

 

[Daniel]

He also left his lanyard around the trunk, after he had put away the saw. Leaving him a lot less mobile to get out of the way.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

SO why did he use the tip tie?

The video speaks more to the skills of the climber than the decision to gut tie the chunk.

For one reason or another I gut tied regularly and never got butted.

 

[evo]

yes... two lowering lines and one pull line, all tied off to a biner and sling. As soon as the piece started moving, the pull line and one of the lowering lines went slack. So the numer of lines had nothing to do with the movement. The variable that caused the dangerous movement was the placement of the sling, as in how the tie off affects the balance of the piece. That balance caused the piece to helicopter around the trunk and had him jumping out of the way for his life, only to end on the other side of the trunk, which was right where the piece bounced...

SO why did he use the tip tie? Did he need the clearance? he migh have.. I saw the entire video. The second lowering line was used as a drift line. If he had moved that sling back to just inside the balance point, the tip would hae gone down and away, preventing the helicoptering, while losing very little clearance.

That and the cut also played a huge role in it. Peeling it would have given the least amount of momentum. A holdback also could have been beneficial.
End of the day a lot could have been different, but it all worked out

 

[Daniel]

That and the cut also played a huge role in it. Peeling it would have given the least amount of momentum. A holdback also could have been beneficial.
End of the day a lot could have been different, but it all worked out

WHile a peel cut certainly would have been better, but that's not the way I look at things.. I want to set my rigging up so that no matter how the piece moves, or how the groundies run the ropes, my safety is not threatened. I want to relax when that piece starts moving, KNOWING that it CAN'T come back and bite me. All this needless tip tying.. Call it a pet peeve. It's just dangerous. This business is already dangerous enough... making it more dangerous than it has to be... WHAT FOR???

Coming back with the attititude that "it all worked out" is a terrible take away IMO. He could have gotten clobbered. Those close calls are all little warnings. You either pay attention and learn your lessons, or pay the price. I've seen it coming before and said so. But do they listen? The last guy I told to get out of the business, promptly broke his back. And was lucky to do so. Was it any surprise after Human, who almost killed himself with a similar tip tied walnut limb, blew it off as "no big deal", then shortly thereafter ended up taking a fall and fracturing his hip etc.

I only wish my go pro battery didn't die the day I helicoptered a 40' dead ash limb that slammed back into the trunk and exploded right in front of me. In that case I needed the clearance and had to balance tie the piece. And I was well protected by the trunk and adjacent limbs. But you should have seen that monster whipping around and coming right back at me. That would have made an awesome video.

So it's one thing if you need the clearance.. and you know what's coming and take precautions... but all this needless tip tying... it's a bad practice... big wood with that kind of momentum can easily kill. NO hard hat is goign to save you with those kind of forces... he at least could have unclipped his lanyard...